The Outdoor Gibbon

22 Sarah Miles, social media influencer and shooter the real deal

The Outdoor Gibbon Season 1 Episode 22

What happens when someone who once refused to touch dead animals becomes an accomplished hunter and equipment tester? Sarah Miles' remarkable journey unfolds in this candid conversation about finding your authentic path in the shooting world.

Sarah reveals how her transformation began with her father's unyielding passion for shooting, through her early aversion to handling game (wearing gloves to touch pheasants!), to eventually landing a job at a gun shop by offering a freshly-baked chocolate cake. This unlikely beginning set her on a path that would lead to becoming a Highland Outdoors ambassador, testing cutting-edge equipment including thermal scopes and precision rifles.

Throughout our discussion, Sarah's refreshing perspective challenges the notion that you need the "latest and greatest" to succeed. "If it works for me, I'll just stick to it," she explains, countering the caliber debates and equipment trends that often dominate shooting forums. Working at what she describes as "the best shooting range in the UK" – a fully underground facility with electronic target systems – she witnesses firsthand how finding the right fit matters more than the price tag.

We explore the technological evolution in hunting, from the "good old days" of lamping to the digital revolution of thermal imaging, while acknowledging concerns about losing traditional stalking skills. Sarah shares invaluable insights from her pursuit of the UK's six deer species, describing the ghost-like sika deer that have humbled her stalking abilities: "If you can stalk sika deer, you can stalk anything."

The conversation takes an honest turn as Sarah discusses the unseen realities behind social media content – the time-consuming editing, challenging photo shoots, and occasionally disturbing messages that come with building an online presence. For anyone interested in hunting, shooting sports, or navigating the modern outdoor world, Sarah's journey offers wisdom earned through persistence and an unwavering commitment to authenticity.

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Speaker 3:

Hello and welcome to the Outdoor Gibbon podcast, episode 22.

Speaker 3:

We got to interview Sarah Miles. You may have seen her on social media. She is a shooter, foxer and deer stalker. She likes testing kit, recently been taken on by one of the big suppliers. She works at a local gun shop and runs a range. So I won't I won't drag on too much. We'll get into the podcast shortly.

Speaker 3:

I just thought I'd do a quick news update as to what's been going on. Well, it's the 10th of December. Christmas is just around the corner. Hopefully everybody's got their shopping list sorted out of what they want for for the next year. What have I been up to to? Well, we are well and truly into the hinds. Obviously we're managing our row call as well. Uh, looking at forestry and stuff like that. The weather's been absolutely atrocious. It's been pretty much constant rain. Up on the hill we've had rain, sleet and snow. But that's the joy of deererstalking If you don't go out, you don't get anything. So it doesn't matter whether it's rain or shine. We carry on and keep doing the job. Anyway, what we'll do is we'll get started on this podcast and I hope you enjoy it. Hello and welcome to the outdoor given podcastbon podcast. Today we are talking with Sarah Miles. You've probably seen her on social media. She is live and in person, so we're going to start asking questions. Hello, sarah.

Speaker 2:

Hello, how are you?

Speaker 3:

I'm very good. Yes, thank you very much for coming on and doing this.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3:

I know we've had a. It's been a bit of a trial and tribulation, obviously, with everybody being ill and stuff like that, and I think you've come down with the same cold now, so we'll apologize to people, absolutely so. Um, yeah, right, I suppose we'll. We'll crack straight into it and ask the the main question I ask every guest that comes on this shooting background, shooting history how did you get into it?

Speaker 2:

how do we begin? Um so, uh, when I was younger, my dad was really into a shooting. Uh, he did a bit of game keeping, went picking up and beating and things like that. We had gun dogs growing up.

Speaker 2:

I actually hated shooting when I was younger um, every time he came home with a dead rabbit or something, I was like that's disgusting, you're cruel and we'd fall out about it. But dad was very, it is what it is. He wasn't going to change what he was going to do, so the dead rabbit stayed on the doorstep.

Speaker 3:

I suppose, if I, if I think back when I was a when kid I was, oh, fluffy creatures were lovely and you always wanted to care for them and you never wanted to hurt them. Then I went out rabbiting with a guy and we did netting and stuff like that and I was like, well, that's interesting, I like that, but I didn't want to do the gutting. And at school I remember biology classes it was like oh I can cope with that, and then it all changed.

Speaker 2:

you could have a strong stomach for it, which I still haven't now. Actually, I think it just comes with time. It's just one of those things suddenly just you kind of just do it and forget about it, yeah, but yeah, eventually, like I say, he wasn't going to change what he was going to do I had a go with an air gun in the back garden, which wasn't the great start, because I put my eye right on the scape and ended up with a black eye. Um, so that put me off shooting right, yeah, after a very good start really good introduction to shooting straight away.

Speaker 2:

Yeah um, and then I remember I started going out beating um and then I got really into like the gun dogs and gun dog training. So he got me out picking up. To begin with I still wouldn't touch dead stuff, um, and then we progressed to dead peasants with gloves on um. If one came back pricked or anything, I'd have to radio him and be like dad, help, I don't know what to do, I can't do it. Um, it's funny, isn't how it changes. You know, I remember even with gloves on afterwards I wouldn't eat my lunch because I was like, oh, my hands are disgusting. I'd had gloves on um, but it was just this, I don't know thing in me that I just didn't like it. But as time went on, I got more involved in the gundog side of it to begin with, and I started working with a gundog trainer training dogs. Then I I'm trying to remember what order it comes in it all sort of comes and goes, doesn't it? I got a job at a local gun shop.

Speaker 3:

Okay, right.

Speaker 2:

I went in and just asked if I could have a job, took them a freshly baked chocolate cake to try and sweeten the deal Because at the time, realistically, realistically, I knew nothing about guns fair enough?

Speaker 3:

no, but I suppose the chocolate cake probably worked quite well it's the only thing I had going for me.

Speaker 2:

I was like I can provide cake um. So, yeah, I started working there and it just sort of flew on from there really. Um started getting into like clay shooting um. Then you get invited to like your beaters days. You're picking up day shooting um. And then started going out rifle shooting with him okay um, and then it just seemed to have gone on more and more and more from there. Really like it's crazy to think from not liking things to being shot to now it seems like such a huge part of my life.

Speaker 3:

I was going to say different ends of the scale yeah, looking at your, your profile and the social media feeds you produce, you are out a lot, there's a lot, you do a lot of stuff. Um, so obviously it, as you say, it's gone from almost nothing I won't touch anything dead to yeah, I'm out, I'm shooting a lot of deer foxes, etc, etc. So is that is your partner obviously heavily into shooting as well? Is he in?

Speaker 2:

yeah. So I'm really lucky that the person I'm with loves it as well. So it's uh. We joke and say should we have date night tonight? Should we go foxing?

Speaker 3:

but it's absolutely fantastic because a lot of people, a lot of a lot of shooters it's either one one that it's either their hobby or their partner or the person they live with doesn't actually enjoy it. So it's it's kind of a tricky situation because, actually, if you've got somebody you can go out and enjoy it with, at the same time, you've always got somebody that can hold the lamp. However, saying that you really don't use a lamp anymore, because I've noticed that most of your kits are either night vision or thermal and and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

I was only saying to someone the other day. I said what happened to the good old days of your lamp, where you just went out with your big lamp and your switch on the front and just scanned around the foot.

Speaker 3:

It seems like I'm not old, but even for me it seems so long ago that that happened yeah, well, I remember we joke about it because we used to go rabbiting on an old airfield and I got some army webbing and we used to carry spare batteries, because you'd be out all night so you'd have like three or four batteries tucked around your webbing kit. You know, your rifle, something, something to eat, and it would be like how much weight am I carrying? And now you can go out with just like a tiny torch or a battery pack and that's it, and it's completely different.

Speaker 3:

Uh, there's an old boy that used to live down uh, where was he taunton direction and he used to try and go out lamping. I remember the story now. He used to try and go out lamping by himself. So what he did was he got a crash helmet, screwed the lamp into into the top of it, but every time he put his head down to the rifle the light would shine 45 degrees into the air. So Steve's method of self-lamping at that point never really worked. He always needed somebody with him.

Speaker 2:

I wonder if I know him actually.

Speaker 3:

You're down that way, so nicknamed Gizzy.

Speaker 2:

He's a well old boy, loves araldite and glues everything together?

Speaker 3:

oh okay, maybe not. I've got some scopes and they've got araldite on them, but there you go, because I got them off steve as long as it works that's all, that's it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, pretty much. You probably do know me, probably he's, he's legendary down that way. The, the stories and the things we used to get it was um, yeah, it was, it was always funny. So you, obviously, yeah, you, you work in the gun shop, but I've, we've seen I think everybody knows, will, will have seen that follows you on social media. You've obviously been picked up by um. Is it highland outdoors now?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and again, luckily, fortunately, um, that was through work really. So we work quite closely with them and other suppliers, you know, ordering stuff in for the shop and the range um. And then just got chatting to the reps one day and he said, oh, how do you feel about being an ambassador? And I was like, yeah, yeah, why not? You get lots of these conversations along the way and I find you sort of taken with a pinch of salt because they don't always come off. So I didn't really get too excited about it. I just said, yeah, let me know. Um thought nothing more of it and then I had an email and he it's going ahead. I was like, oh, okay, like I just thought it was one of those passing conversations, um, so, yeah, um had a message from the bottom island said that they'd love to work with me, um, and it's kind of just gone from there really. So, but doing that must be, I mean, it's quite new.

Speaker 3:

So three months maybe I was gonna say it it's yeah, but obviously let let's try and um, kill the myths and all the rest of it of the ambassadorship and things like, because there's loads of people out there just think it's. It's people that just don't do any shooting really, and all the rest of you obviously are the real deal. You're out, you are shooting, you do a lot of shooting and before that you were still out shooting. So, actually having them on board, you are actually able to test kit and and do things yeah, um, yeah, you've, you've got to be.

Speaker 2:

I guess there's companies that aren't maybe the same, but with them you know they very much wanted people that are out doing it on a daily, weekly basis, testing the kit, not just posting a picture of it saying look at this pretty gun well yeah.

Speaker 3:

I think, that's one of the things you do. You do see, unfortunately, social media has this nasty habit of producing a lot of perfect photos with somebody holding a rifle or a pair of binoculars or something like that, and it's like, have they really actually been out shooting or are they just doing that for the the photo shoot, and they really don't have a clue what's going on?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and I, you know I was honest with them from the start. I said to them the ambassador thing is great, there's some great perks to it. You know I love doing it, but at the end of the day you're going out with a job to do so you need the right kit to do it. And I said to them from day one you know I'll try anything you send me, but if it, if it's rubbish or if it doesn't work for me, I will say because I can't be going out with kit that doesn't work, going oh there's a fox over there but oh, the scope's died or the you know, something doesn't work. At the end of the day you're not doing it for fun.

Speaker 3:

In a way, you've got a job to do and a reason behind doing it yeah, because you started off, I think, with a with an ATN scope, and I think I remember talking to you about that for a while that was through.

Speaker 2:

Lee Perryman actually got me I think I didn't really know Lee at the time and I remembered he forwarded me something from ATN and I was a bit like, was this a scam? I don't really know. And he was like you should apply. And I was like, was this legit? And so I just again one of those things I thought I'll apply and just see what happens. Um, so that's where I started was with ATN and it was brilliant. Um, the scope they sent me was fantastic. It did what I needed it to do. Um, but then I got approached by Highland and, yeah, I was gutted to leave ATN and I got on really well with the guys but they were really understanding. Um, getting the gig with Highland had more opportunities. It wasn't just scopes, it's guns, clothing, bipods, moderate, you know, it's the whole lot it's the whole shooting package at the end of the day.

Speaker 3:

Yeah no, absolutely because I think you're now running a thermal setup on on stuff yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I've well my 6.5 Creedmoor that they sent me. I've got a just a Maven normal day scope um, and then on the 223 I've got the Infray TL35, and I'd actually never used a thermal um scope until then because the ATN was a day and night scope that's right. Yeah, yeah, it's all new to me.

Speaker 3:

When I got it I'm running the same same infrared scope, that uh 35. Um, yeah, I think it's. I think it's. It's brilliant. We've only just had the legislation change up here that actually now that certain people, if you hold a night license and all the rest of it, we can actually now move over to thermal. So it does make a big difference, but for that it was my foxing rifle at the end of the day it's funny how you say that about that.

Speaker 2:

Just quickly, about the license it's funny people think you know everything, but you don't. You know. I mean, you'll probably find you still learn stuff all the time. Somebody messaged me the other day and said, oh, um, I really want one, but I'm in ireland so I can't have one. And I said, well, why can't you have a thermal? He said because we need a license for it. I was like, oh, you know, I mean something I never even knew that. I said what do you mean? You need a license for it? You just go to a shop and buy one yeah, it's crazy, isn't it?

Speaker 3:

but yeah, different, different parts of the world have different licenses. So yeah, I was just explaining there to anybody that doesn't know. Obviously we can use thermal scopes for for them in control, that's no problem at all. But deer management you weren't up until uh 25 at the end of october. You weren't allowed to actually go out with a, a digital optic on your rifle for shooting deer. So even a day and night scope like your atn was technically against the law because it could, in what what basically was, you could actually get to the hour past that of night, of sort of daylight hour, and technically switch on. So you were still shooting past the the cutoff time.

Speaker 3:

But the law has now changed, legislation's changed that actually now allows us to use a image intensifying scope. So, be it a day and night scope or a thermal scope, if you hold a night license, which means you have to be on the fit and competent person's register, then you can actually use these pieces of kit. So it should be a bit of a game changer. But how do you find because obviously you've taken a few deer a game changer? But how do you find? Take it, because obviously you've taken a few deer with your thermal. How do you find it?

Speaker 2:

yeah, it's, it's weird, like to begin with, it's very weird. When you haven't used one before, it's a little bit. You're so used to looking through this crystal clear scope where you can, you know, see every part of the deer, every grain of hair, and and then you look at this and you're like, oh, it's, it's. It takes some getting used to, um, but actually it's fantastic. And again it goes back to the old lamping days or the old deer stalking days, where you just had your rifle and your ammo and that was it. And you know, now, a lot of people, you know you use spotters as you're walking through the woodland. You've got that upper hand, haven't you? Because you can sort of spot them before you get there. Yeah, um, and it's mad. Is that you think back then we never had this back in the day, do you know?

Speaker 3:

I mean, yeah, it's kind of one of those things. It's like if I'm out stalking, stalking the, the spotter stays in the car. I don't take it, I just take the binos and the rifle. If I'm out managing woodland, then you take the spotter because it kind of gives you the, it gives you a heads up as to what's going on, what's in the trees, what's about to step out, uh, and I think that's really important. But it's again, as you see, more and more professional guides I've seen up here actually now relying on spotters and thermal optics rather than the binos, which is it's almost like a dil, dilution of skills.

Speaker 2:

At the end of the day, yeah, and I think, as we move forward, that's all people are ever going to know. It's like people that grew up with lamping you know they will have never experienced that. So, going forward, they'll only know using a spotter or a thermoscope. They won't know any different. That will just be normal to them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I agree with you because I've. It's always. It's always surprised me when you're standing there with a guest and you're like there's a deer over there and you're like what? It's like, yeah, just over there you can just see the the, the white of its ass. No, I can't see anything. Look over by that tree stump. How did you see that? It's just like. Well, I'm so used to it and you're quite, it's an acquired skill nowadays my partner's like that.

Speaker 2:

He's like over there three fields, and I'm like sorry, he's like left of the tree and I'm like I can just see a tree. There's nothing there. And then I pick the spotter up, I'm like, oh yes, how the hell did you see that?

Speaker 3:

yeah, but but that's it. And the spot is there, the it's, it's just. I suppose it's one of those things that, as you say, people will just become so used to. They get their spotter out, they, they identify something. The only disadvantage to it is do you think there'll be? It's that understanding what you're actually seeing through the, through the scope or the spotter?

Speaker 2:

yeah, you've got to be. I mean, even now I don't know if you find it, but you know I'll pick up the spotter when we're out foxing and I'll be like, oh, there's a fox. And then you look and you actually know it's not a fox. You know it isn't with the best spotter in the world. You still have to be clued up and know what you're looking at. And it's not just what you're looking at, it's the way they move, the way they're acting, identifies them as well. So you can be easily tricked into thinking it's one thing when actually it's not. Um, so you still need to have that knowledge about you and not rely on it, because you could get it wrong yeah, the text.

Speaker 3:

Obviously I use a really old pulsar uh, spotter and it is it's. It's a grainy, old picture and it's not not like these new, new stuff where you can actually see the grass and everything is much clearer. But again, it's one of those things that you, you, you can find something, but then you have to identify it, work out what it is, make sure that it's not standing behind a bush or a hedge uh, not standing in a stubble park where they've cut the rape and it's still so high that actually it's it's. It looks like it's through a forest, but in your thermal it's as crystal clear as day.

Speaker 2:

It's right in front of you exactly.

Speaker 3:

And the other thing you got to remember is most of these spotters are like 10 times magnification. So, oh, it's right, there, it's actually.

Speaker 3:

It's 200 yards away and then you look through your scope and you're like jesus that's quite a long way away, actually well, that's the thing and I suppose, as tech moves on the new scopes and all the rest of it, especially the one you're running, it's great image quality and it's so totally different compared to the old spotters and all the rest of it, so it is a nice crystal clear image. You've got the different palettes you can work through. So it's certainly come on, and I think there's a whole bunch of new scopes coming out now which you'll probably see them before anybody else that are totally different again yeah, and I know it's.

Speaker 2:

It's amazing and it's keeping. You can't keep up the technology, do you know? I mean, that's the. There's so many new products coming out all the time. It's mad really. But I think you've just got to find what suits you. You know what I like. You might not like. You know the guns I feel comfortable with. You might not, and that's fine. You know, when people buy guns and the gun shop they say what's the best gun? And I said well, for you it could be a 50 pound gun or it could be a a thousand pound gun. It's not to do with the price tag, it's on what fits you. You get on with. You feel comfortable. There's no, you know, I can't say it is this one, it's what you get on with.

Speaker 3:

I think. I think that's you've. You've hit the nail on the head that everybody asks you what's the best caliber, what should I buy? And you look at the, the, the, the like, the forums and all the rest of it and you'll get. You are or does it. You ask one question, like, let's say, what's the best caliber, you'll probably get 35 different answers telling you that you need a 308, you need a 6.5 creed more, you need this, you need that and actually, as I've always said to somebody is, go out, shoot a few with different people and see what you feel comfortable with yeah, exactly you've got to find.

Speaker 2:

You know it's the same with shotguns. You could pick up a cheap old 50 quid second hand single barrel out of a shop and shoot really blooming well with it. You know, I've tried, um I've got nothing against berettas, but I can't shoot with a bretta. I don't know why I just me and brettas don't get on so that means you, that means you shoot a browning.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yeah, yeah, it's, it's either you shoot a beretta or browning.

Speaker 2:

That's, that's the story but it's just finding what. And it's funny, like you say about the caliber. You know, up until I got the 6.5 from highland, my highest caliber was 2.43 and people always said to me why do you get a bigger one? I said because I don't need one. You know, I've only got roe deer around here, so I'm shooting roe or foxes. Why do I need to go and buy a 308 or more expensive browns or you know, when the gun I've got does everything I need it to do?

Speaker 3:

yeah, I think I think that was that was like the go-to for most police forces, wasn't it? That was you. You applied for a firearms license and literally it was a have a 22LR and have a have a 243, and and that's pretty much covered everybody. It covered them for foxes, it covered them for most of the deer species you can find in the uk. All right, I probably wouldn't want you to come up to scotland with a 243, but I know loads of guys over here that they've shot hundreds of deer with a 243. Um, but again, it's one of those things. It's. It's it's horses, for courses, everybody will have their say. There's a lot more calibers of wild cat calibers that have turned up on the market and stuff like that, and I think that the current buzzword is the 6.5 creed more, isn't it really?

Speaker 2:

you probably but then some people say to me oh, you've got creed more. And I'm like oh, really it works fine for me.

Speaker 3:

It didn't get very good press when it was first released, did it? It kind of ended up all over the places oh, you don't want to creed more. Only that this type of person has a creed more. It's like it does the job.

Speaker 2:

It does the job at the end of the day yeah, just I think, find what suits you, and if it suits you, that's all that matters. Don't worry about what other people say pretty much well, but that that's.

Speaker 3:

That's kind of. I think people get caught up in everything, don't they? And they? They kind of get a bit worried about it's like keeping up with the joneses, it's the caliber trend and all the rest of it. Oh, I've bought this rifle. It shoots really well, but I want to swap and buy the next rifle. It's like well, why don't you just stick with what you know and and become a good shot with it?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I'm very much. I don't like change. If it works for me, I'll just stick to it. Do you know what I mean? I've got no need to change to just keep what's working for you and yeah so let's, uh, let's move this on.

Speaker 3:

So obviously, um, you're into your stalking. Have you shot the the, the uk six, or is that something that's still to be done?

Speaker 2:

still to be done. Um, so I still need to shoot a red seeker and a fallow? Um. I went out a few weekends ago to try and get my first seeker. Wasn't successful, unfortunately, but still, like I always say, every stalk it's not about pulling the trigger, it's about the journey, the stalk, the people you meet, and it was just a complete eye-opener. You know I'm used to roe deer and seeker. I don't like roe deer.

Speaker 3:

No, no, no, no. It's funny because our last guest was uh, richie of richard next knives, and he's just come back from ireland, uh, which is obviously where I, my deer stalking, started, really chasing seeker deer around county whitclay and uh he's literally chasing yeah, pretty much it was like cowboy style. Um, they're a totally different animal altogether they are yeah, you, you, you really learn to stalk. A see, if you can stalk seeker deer, you can stalk anything else absolutely I'm used to sort of you know, just strut.

Speaker 2:

If you've got the wind right, you can pretty much, with a roe deer, just carry on walking along, talking. You know, just struggle. If you've got the wind right, you can pretty much, with a roe deer, just carry on walking along, talking. You know, as you are crunching the twigs and if the wind's in your favor then it's fine. But when I went out on the seeker he was like no, no, no, you need to be quiet. I was like all right, you know, and it's just they're there and then they're gone. It's a whole different ball game. And I was like this is really difficult yeah, see, see, could do the.

Speaker 3:

The best bit of advice was I've ever given to somebody and people gave to me was stalk a little and look a lot. So every 10 paces, buy nose up, start looking, because they are probably hiding 15 yards in the trees to your side, to the side of you, and it's almost. We were just said it the other day and I'll say it again. It's like that scene in jurassic park you're looking at the velociraptors ahead of you, but there's one to the left of you that's looking straight out the trees at you and with thermal tech you put that up and you see them straight away. But when you didn't have it and it was binary, you couldn't see them. They are like the ghosts of the forest and yeah, even up in the high seat.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we'll sit in a high seat around here and again you can sort of talk and carry on and you know, nobody, nothing really pays attention to. But I think I just moved my barrel slightly and the seeker just looked up at me and I was like, oh really, you've noticed me up here, like covered in camo, but they, they are just so quick and so switched on, um, so yeah, I'm gonna go back out again and try again, um, but there's no rush. I mean like it'll all happen when it happens. Um, hopefully I'll get a red to the fallow at some point, but I'm not rushing. You know some people rush out to complete it all in a certain time.

Speaker 3:

You know as and when I do it, I'll do it well, if I get my chinese water deer this year, it's only taken me what 15 years to do them all. So so you got see, you got plenty of time. It's as I say, it's. It's not a rush, it just. It's one of those things. It just happens when it happens at the end of the day. I know some people like to do the whole lot as quick as possible and they say they've done them, but I think it's opportunities that come up and it's it's that whole thing, it's the whole experience, it's making the memories at the end of the day. I think that's the most important part yeah, definitely, yeah, some of them.

Speaker 2:

I always say some of the best stalks. I haven't even bought the trigger, you know.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yeah, it's, it's been an eye-opener actually being out on the hill guiding people and getting guys into Heinz and we, we kind of got them in and got him in, I think about five or six times. Well, he missed a couple of times and the last stalk it was like we were there and I said to him well, that's it, they've gone. He's like it's not about pulling the trigger, it's, it's actually the stalk. All right, yeah, we had crawled 200 meters down the side of the hill, but for him, as far as he was concerned, he's like it was amazing, it was brilliant. I was like we, we didn't get it.

Speaker 2:

It's like You're like we're soaking wet. We're soaking wet yeah, but it was great.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, but for them it was just a day out on the hill and that's part of it. So it, as I say, I think a lot of people pulling the trigger is a very clinical. Two second incident that anybody, realistically, you can put them behind a rifle, put them on the target, and it's the same principle. If they can get the deer out their head and squeeze the trigger, happy days yeah because you've got there's a rifle range. Isn't there at your gun?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so originally I started in the gun shop because it was just a gun shop and then four years ago they built a hundred meter underground full underground, full-bore range.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

And then on the side we've got like a 90-metre air rifle range. So I work solely in there now. So very handy, like today, we're going away shooting the weekend. So I was like I'll just check my guns on target still, just make sure everything's okay. So on my lunch break I just just nip in, take a few shots and job done.

Speaker 3:

I was going to say there aren't that many underground ranges in the UK are there, because the only one I've ever been to was up at um in Derbyshire, carlton Moor, which is a tunnel range and a bit of a weird range. Is yours a tunnel or is it actually a a more substantial range?

Speaker 2:

so ours I would say not just because I work there is the best shooting range in uk because it's got the state of the art system. So the we've got electronic target systems which came from america, so I think there are.

Speaker 2:

There are a few ranges about a lot of them. You have to all stop shooting, make safe, go down, look at your target and I think we could do that out in a field, um, but with this one, you all sit at your benches, nobody has to go um over the shooting line and you just hit your button to what distance. You can change your lights, you can change your colors, you can set up scenarios on it so that target goes out and only turns for so many seconds before it moves out to another distance. Um, so yeah, it is pretty cool. I'm very lucky to work there and be able to use it so that I was going to say is that range open to?

Speaker 3:

do you get a lot of guys that come in want to develop loads, or are you into stalking, or they're competitive shooters and things like that come in there I would say, uh, so we have a lot of members.

Speaker 2:

We've got nearly 700 members wow, okay I'd say most of those members are really into like tactical shooting, long range shooting, obsessed with semi-autos type of shooting, but we do get the stalkers in. A lot of them will just be so. We're open to people that aren't members. Um, they can come in, pay a fee, have it for an hour, just test, zero test, some loads. So yeah, we've got the completely different ends of the spectrum in shooters. We've got people that have never held a gun before. Um, we do training and things like that. So, never touched a gun to you know, really experience people that just want to use it because it's convenient.

Speaker 3:

It's in the dry, yeah, I suppose the thing about exactly a tunnel range, the beauty or an underground range, the beauty of it is you have no weird side effects of wind or anything like that. So when you want to take a shot and make sure that your rifle's on zero, you can take that shot and you're not having to worry about the hundred mile an hour crosswind that gives you 18 inches of wind drift or something like that yeah, so if it goes wrong it's generally your fault, because there's nothing else going in the way exactly it's.

Speaker 3:

It's kind of the ideal thing and and this is something we've learned heavily this year on the hill it's just been mental with those, some of the, the stories and the wind it's um. I've never seen a 308 bullet drift and rise over 80, but we were 250 yards and it drifted 18 inches and I complain about the weather down here yeah, yeah, but of course, when you're shooting position, it was completely calm, but it's like pockets of wind across the distance and so, yeah, it's.

Speaker 3:

It's been a big learning curve. And how do you, how do you tell a guest next to you? I've had like street lock up on my phone. Go right, you need to aim here on my scope, and they're like I don't trust you. I'm like trust me, just shoot there. And yeah they do it and they get a deer and it's just like you know. But it's not on the crosshairs, it's not in the dot. I'm like, don't worry about the dot, there's wind aim here but that takes years of experience.

Speaker 2:

I mean it's taking you a long time to get to that point and learn that you know it's it exactly it.

Speaker 3:

It is and um, it's just one of those things, but it goes down to fundamentals, I think that's we've spoken about it before, people have spoken about it before. It's all the training, but your range offers training so you can actually get a novice come in there and be guided through. I think in the old days you wanted to get a firearm. You got a firearm and you hoped that your mate was going to take you out and take you shooting and he was going to teach you what he'd kind of learned from somebody else and and that was it. But at least now you can use technology to actually help educate these people and and and get better shooters in some way and do it in a safe environment yeah, no, which is you're in a range, the guns are all pointing down the end, do you know?

Speaker 2:

I mean you're not in the middle of a field, you know. Is it a safe shot, is it not? Is it going to get? You know, you're in a complete controlled environment with experienced people around you. So I think it is a good thing, you know. It doesn't hurt, you know, to have training and lessons, it's only a good thing well, it's obviously working.

Speaker 3:

If you've got 700 members in there, it's um and and footfall as well. It obviously means that people are going there because of that reason and a lot of a lot of clubs are struggling because they're losing ranges, and military ranges are a nightmare to get onto at the moment and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's obviously working well yeah, it does.

Speaker 2:

Well, keeps me busy. There's plenty of paperwork to do. I've actually been painting for the last two days, believe it or not. People say what's your job and I'm like, well, paperwork phones. But the last two days I've been painting the shop, so fair enough, so let's, let's carry on.

Speaker 3:

So you were um. You've got an ibex on the back wall behind you. I see, and the listeners won't see, it's not yours, is it no?

Speaker 2:

so that's my partner. He shot that. There's quite a few, actually there's some, okay, and then we've. So this wall is the nobody can see. They're like what are they looking at?

Speaker 3:

So this is the.

Speaker 2:

Roebuck wall.

Speaker 3:

Right. So are they all your Roebucks, or?

Speaker 2:

Between me and my partner. That's our conjoined Roebuck wall that we're sharing at the moment.

Speaker 3:

It's fantastic.

Speaker 2:

We're running out of room in the house for taxidermy people listening.

Speaker 3:

We, we had a quick look around. Uh, look around the room. There's obviously a really nice ibex on the wall behind sarah, and then she's got over the fireplace a whole load of roebuck skulls that they've obviously trophies, that they've shot over the the last couple of years, or uh, yeah, that's probably the last two seasons, there's more, but we're just running out of room.

Speaker 2:

We live in a bungalow and there's just not enough. My partner shot a red and he had that back from taxidermy, which people would have seen the hilarious video on my instagram I don't know if you saw it of me trying to get it in the house. Um, that's gone out in the office actually, because there's just not a wall that it will fit on without it being at like child height where they can play with it and pull it off the wall yeah, I, I, we, we struggle with that.

Speaker 3:

Obviously we live in an old house in ebbedean share. My, my, my skull collection has to stay in sort of a a bit of a weird alcove that's high up out of the way, but my reds are too big, so, um, at the moment they've actually managed to make it onto the bedroom wall, because that's the only room that's big enough.

Speaker 2:

I'm dying to have one in the bedroom. I wanted the red in there but I put it up and I was like it's not going to fit.

Speaker 3:

It's when you wake up and its nose is right there by your head, kind of thing. The problem with modern houses.

Speaker 2:

is that? You're so weird? Why would you want that in your bedroom? I'm like it's amazing.

Speaker 3:

Why wouldn't you exactly? It's, it's something that you went and did. It's it's, it's that experience you, you look at it and you remember it. It's, um, that's, that's what it all boils down to a story behind them absolutely well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and, and that's the problem I think I'm getting to that point where I really should start thinning them down, because it's like they've all got a story. But how many stories do I actually need, I think? I think my wife would be much happier if there weren't so many on the walls. It's always a talking point when guests walk through and they kind of look up in this alcove she's like oh, there we go.

Speaker 3:

There's a lot of death up there, but it's like but, but we had that one for dinner and we've eaten that one, we've eaten that one. So at least everything's gone through our, gone through our freezer as well. That's the main thing, that's the main thing so, moving forward, are there any interesting bits of kit that you've recently got that you're going to be talking about or showing to people at any point or you can't talk about?

Speaker 2:

you know. So I think I've pretty much showed and tested everything that I've got at the minute. So I got the 223 Hauer, the 65 Christiansen Arms, and then I got the Thermal Scope and the Maven Scope um, some Maven Bino. So I've pretty much been open and, you know, told everyone about what I'm using and so far I haven't touched wood, been able to fault anything, and that's honest, do you know? I mean, I don't just say to people buy this, it's the best thing. I will be honest and say don't touch that, it's rubbish, you know. Or it just didn't work for me, um, but yeah, everything that I'm using at the minute it seems to be going really well.

Speaker 3:

It's working for me for what I'm doing so are those those, obviously those items you're testing and showing for Highland Outdoors, but is that sort of the type of things that then the shop will take on and stock?

Speaker 2:

yeah, definitely yeah. So they stock the stock's sort of changing a little bit. Where I work, you know we still do the stalking and the hunting stuff but because of the range our clients have changed a lot so we're now getting, like I said to a lot of those people that want the semi-auto rifles, you know the tactical shooting and things like that.

Speaker 2:

So it's kind of stocking a bit of both now, whereas before we were all shotguns and just hunting rifles, it's now stocking. We've got a lot of air rifles. We've got, like I say, a lot of semi-auto. I mean, the semi-autos are so popular, I mean, and it's like I said to you, each to their own, so popular. I mean, and it's like I said, you each to their own, everyone's got their own niche. To me I they go oh my god, look at this semi auto. Is it amazing? I'm like, no, it's not for me does it shoot rabbits?

Speaker 3:

yeah. Is it a wooden stock? Yeah, that'll do. But I suppose, yeah, that we see it in our club. You've obviously got guys that go out and they've got their fully tactical setup two, two and you're just like, yeah, but I can do what you're doing with my old Bruno. It's an H-shot. I might have to change the magazine a few times, but hey, it just does exactly what it says on the tin.

Speaker 2:

I quite like just basic. You get all these fancy different stocks and things and people say what do you think? And I'm like I don't really like it. I just like your bog standard normal stock. As long as it does the job, that's all I need it to do so big question then wooden stock or synthetic stock?

Speaker 3:

synthetic you're a synthetic stock type of person yes again.

Speaker 2:

I think that might be just again. I think a lot of what you're into is is how you're brought up, isn't it? You know? Yeah, well, I was only talking to someone about it the other day and I said, well, kids don't know about eating pheasants and partridge and venison because then they don't have it available to them. So you grow up, you know, in this passage of, that's all you know, and I guess it's the same. You know, dad always had synthetic stocks, so I guess that's just what I've got used to. Um, so yeah, that's all I've. I don't think I've ever had a wooden stock on a rifle.

Speaker 3:

I don't think uh, well, there's something about it. I think if you're going to have a traditional stalking rifle, I know there'll be lots of people now going, no, no, you've got to have synthetic. But I've always had a wooden stock. Okay, it takes a bit more care on the hill when it gets. You've got to dry it carefully. But yeah, it's just been one of those things I'm not against them.

Speaker 2:

I've seen some and I'm like, oh, that looks amazing. Do you know what I mean? Like, again, I wouldn't be against one, I'd give it a go. It's just what you're used to, isn't it?

Speaker 3:

But the synthetic it's, so you can knock it, scratch it and all the rest of it. You, my mind, looks abused most of the time like you've. You've banged it or you dented it on a rock and and the wood takes that dent and and it shows it well at the end of the day. I suppose it's one of those things you can go well, I remember where I did that dent, but it tells a story. But yeah, when it, when you've been, when you've been rained on for three days, i'd'd probably much rather have taken out the synthetic stock on the .308 rather than my Tikka. Yeah, it starts to look like a drain pipe at the end of the day and everything's soaking wet.

Speaker 2:

It's a tool, though, and I think that's what I'd struggle with. I'm quite OCD. I think if I got a nick in my stock I'd be really bothered by it, but it is a tool for a job at the end of the day.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I think that's the difference. There are different shooters out there. There are some that everything has to be perfect and pristine, whereas obviously, yeah, mine get ding, danged, dented, scratched. She's even moderator banging off the side of the um, going up in the Argo and it just sits behind me and you just hear and you're just like, oh, it's got more chips and dents out of it. But hey, that's what it's there to do, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

exactly, yeah, it's, it's your tool. It's no different than a builder and his tools, is it? Those are your tools, that you use every single, that you don't just go out with your fancy gun once or twice a year to show it off. Your it's your tools for your job it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly, and I think. I think that's the the key. But, as I say, everybody each their own. They all have their um, how they look after their kit and want to do what they want with it. So you were talking about, uh, you've still got your red and fallow to shoot. Is there anything else in species other than deer that you're interested in going after um?

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't mind maybe doing a wild boar.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 2:

But I think from a high seat.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I've seen too many YouTube videos of it going wrong when they're on the ground.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, but that's only if you have, like a driven boar. I'm pretty sure we don't do a lot of driven boar in this country, so you should be all right, unless you're going to Sweden or something.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I couldn't do that. I think the panic would set in and I'd be like, oh, the safety's on, but no, there's nothing Dear, I'm quite. You know, I love the roadblocks stalking. If I get opportunities to go abroad and shoot other things, I will. But at the minute, you know, there's nothing that I'm like oh gotta gotta do that it's just. You know, I take the opportunities as and when they come. Um, it's great to be invited to places to do things, but I'm quite happy in a way, just you know, sort of doing what I'm doing in my little comfort zone and that's, that's all it boils down to.

Speaker 3:

Are you going to be, uh, attending any of the shows this year?

Speaker 2:

yeah, definitely, I was having a look, uh the day actually. So british shooting show um, I'll be going to. I don't know if I'll be working any of them. I haven't actually had chats to high end about because sometimes you know they get the ambassadors and that on the stall, so I don't know from that front. But I'd definitely be going to the british shooting show, the stalking show, the game fair um, we were in talks, but I think next year because I've left it a bit last minute now.

Speaker 2:

But, um, I'd like to take my partner to the iwa in germany okay, yeah, yeah, yeah so I went there um years and years ago with work, um, and I'd love to do the SHOT Show in Las Vegas Again. Just one of those experience, it type of things.

Speaker 3:

It's supposed to be. That is the pinnacle of shooting shows, isn't it? At the end?

Speaker 2:

of the day.

Speaker 3:

Everyone, that's anyone and obviously a lot of American gun manufacturers and outfitters go there and yeah, I think I think it's some stupid size.

Speaker 2:

I thought I thought IWA was big, but the shot show just takes up some huge, huge amount of space yeah, I tried and we did the I because I went with work for the IWA and we had to sort of get around it in like two days and I was exhausted. It is you don't for those things. You can't believe it until you see it, and I imagine it's going to be the same with a shot show. That's why I said that I'd love to do it once, just to experience it.

Speaker 3:

Um yeah, it's. It's a tricky one to get to because obviously the IWA if anybody that's listening is not just open to the public. You have to either be within the shooting industry, either an exhibitor or a seller or of some how would you put it retail outlet type of thing to be able to go there, because basically it's looking at two years in advance of what kit's going to be coming out on the market and and sales, etc. Etc. So it's where all the big deals go down. But it's just, yeah, three or four massive halls in Germany, uh, nuremberg direction, yeah, and it's um. I was literally in Germany the week before um doing something else and I was like I could have just nipped up to the and I I had to get back because of other other other things. But it was like next time if I plan to go to Germany I will try and get to the IWA and get around experience them all.

Speaker 2:

You know they've all got different things about them. I really like the stalking show, obviously because I'm really into the stalking. You know that's a really good show for me.

Speaker 3:

I love going there and well, it'll be really interesting this year because obviously this year the stalking show will be three, I believe it's it's going to be bigger again. So obviously the first year was very small. It got bigger. It got the balcony last year and I think he's got another hall planned for this year, so it's actually going to be sort of three halls. Uh, and again it is. It's such a nice place because it is just like-minded people and you know, when you get there, everybody's there for the same reason and it's kind of a big. Well, I trek down and it's what? 500 miles. So it's it's a fair old trek down there, but it's a way to catch up with people that you haven't seen for 12 months and and it is, it's one of those shows that, yeah, there's always something of interest and something different to see.

Speaker 2:

That's the only trouble is catching up with people. When we went to the game fair this year, I said to my partner I said we're going to have to do two days next year because we've literally spent an entire day just talking to people. We've missed three quarters of the show.

Speaker 3:

I said so next year we need to have a day catching up with people and a day actually looking around at stuff and watching things in the arenas I worked soon this year helping a friend, uh, on his his shop out, and I think the only aisle I saw was gun makers row and that was walking backwards and forwards to get in the car to go back to the hotel at night. I was like that's the first time I've never actually walked around the showground. And when I did quickly walk around the showground everything was closing up, so it is, it's something?

Speaker 2:

oh, that's it. Yeah, it's hard work working at a show as well.

Speaker 3:

It's tiring yeah, it is, it's long days, but it's always good because you get to see people, you get to talk to people and hopefully pass a bit of knowledge and experience on. But yeah, as you say, it's one of those things it's hard work walking around the show but actually working and talking to people constantly, it's it's like working in a shop but working in the shop on steroids.

Speaker 2:

It's just constant people coming in you get home you're like I just don't want to talk to anyone now. Just nobody talked to me yeah, to the bar, please.

Speaker 3:

I'll have a pint and by that time you sit down in the chair and you're ready to fall asleep. But uh, so, uh, we've covered how you got started in shooting. We've gone through you doing your bits for, obviously, uh, your ambassadorship. Is there anything exciting in the pipeline for for sarah mills shooting on on your social feeds coming up?

Speaker 2:

um, so I've got a few photo shoots and um some filming to do for some clothing lines.

Speaker 2:

Okay, we won't mention any names at the moment no, no, I've actually done a couple um, I did one a month ago and I did one in the summer actually, and that is still a lot of that is yet to be released. It's it's hard because you get everything that you've done and I look at all the photos and the videos and I just want to show everyone, but I can't until they release it. So I've got hundreds of photos and videos on my phone that I can't even show anyone and I'm like eager for them to release stuff well, at least you've got lots of content.

Speaker 3:

So that's the main thing.

Speaker 2:

At least you're ready to go but I'm like come on, can I post it yet? They're like not yet. Um, so, yeah, I've got another photo shoot and video to do. Um, it was supposed to be December but I think we pushed it back to January. Um, so, yeah, that's it. Um, that's it at the minute. Really, um, even that, I mean it all seems for me, it seems to I've all taken off at once.

Speaker 2:

It's gone from zero to a hundred and you know people think, oh, it's great, you just get given stuff. It's so easy and it's it's not trying to fit all this in around going out to do what you want to go out. And you know you're going out to stalk for a reason, or to fox shoot for a reason. You know you're not just posing with a gun for Instagram, you're going to do a job plus work and children. I, you know, I said to my partner we were going through the diary last night. I said between now and Christmas we have one day to go Christmas shopping and that is it. I said the diary is full but that's really.

Speaker 3:

It's kind of good that people actually understand this, because I think a lot of people look at social media and they go oh oh, you're out and you're doing this and it looks so, so easy. But there's a whole other side to it, isn't there that we've all actually got day jobs and nobody wants to see your day job, but they want to see all the stuff you post online. And then when you post something that's slight, there's stuff gets posted that's slightly out of season. So you just said you did a photo shoot in the summer. Stuff gets posted. That's slightly out of season. So you just said you did a photo shoot in the summer. If you suddenly go and throw those photos up now, people will be like oh well, that's just content that when was that?

Speaker 2:

it'll be fine, because it was winter clothes in summer, which I can tell you was not fun doing. It was like 25 degree heat in winter clothing and it was not fun. I had to keep taking all the jumpers off going. Hang on, let me just breathe for a minute and then we'll do the one.

Speaker 3:

But yeah, it's just, it's just the greener on the trees. It's like, yeah, it'll be, it's it's. It just doesn't quite work, does it that? That's why I was talking to somebody. It's like, oh, but you take time to get your podcast done or photos done. It's like, well, I'd prefer to make sure everything's current. So it kind of, if you record something now, it needs to be up within a period of time I try, within like a week or two weeks to get them out, because otherwise you suddenly end up you're talking about something and it's completely out of context or it doesn't work with what's going on. And I think a lot of some people slip on their social media feeds going on. And I think a lot of some people slip on their social media feeds. They actually slip into posting stuff that they may have. They've just got a photo and they throw it up and it's like, well, hang on a minute, leaves aren't on the trees yet and it's the middle of June, kind of thing but it is a lot to keep up is is it?

Speaker 2:

you've got to find a balance. You know, you, you don't get paid to do these things from. You know, like being an ambassador. You know you get your perks of trying to equip things like that, but you know you're not getting paid to do it. So it's like I say, it's trying to put it all in, but, you know, just to make a video, there's so much time I sit in bed at night like I've got to make this video and I'm there. You know editing and things like that, but it's trying to. What goes into your content? You know, even if it's your every day-to-day things like going out to talk, and it still takes time. There's still a lot of, and sometimes I feel the real pressure of it. I think, god, I haven't posted this week. But then I also think, but that's just life. You know you, you get it as well. You know we don't have time to always be posting every single day, keeping everyone up to date.

Speaker 3:

It's just reality but you're lucky, you see, you've got a cameraman that can actually take the footage. When you're trying to do all of this and and and and, trying to balance a phone, take a picture, a video that drive this walk off a hill, but not get blown off.

Speaker 2:

How you do that it's um, it.

Speaker 3:

It kind of it's got a bit crazy. It was lovely to actually have alex the hunter gatherer up to to record his days, because to be followed by a cameraman, it was just like I'm actually getting. I'm actually getting filmed. This is great, um, and it's.

Speaker 2:

I know my partner blessing me. So, oh, for god's sake, here we go again.

Speaker 3:

Cameraman, here I come yeah, absolutely, but it's one of those things people they do enjoy the content and as long as it's good and and we see that because lots of people repost and say, follow who to follow, etc. Etc. So you're obviously doing the right things and that's the way it is. Um, no, no, no, definitely um, because you did, you did a live with with Alex, uh, for his, his huntress week, which seemed to go pretty well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he was lovely. I mean, that's the first time I'd ever really spoken to him or met him and yeah, he was great and this is it. It's so nice to be meeting new people. I actually you talk about things coming up again, something I can't mention, but I had a phone call with someone tonight that I've kind of met you say met through Instagram. You don't know them, do you? But you sort of chat to them and you feel like you know them, um, and I've got something planned coming up with her over the next few months, but just talking to her on the phone tonight, it's like, oh, it's so nice to actually speak to you and not just see each other on Instagram and message each other.

Speaker 3:

I think that makes a big difference. It's actually putting like. I made a trip the other day. I was working up towards Inverness and I actually decided there were two. Two people have traveled all the way from doncaster.

Speaker 3:

They're stalking with another lad up there, so an extra half an hour onto the journey just to rock up, sit outside, knock on the door and go hi, we've spoken that much on online and all the rest yeah I was supposed to see you last time I was down in england and actually to meet them face to face, um, it makes a huge difference because you actually get to to to tie, tie things together and, at the end of the day, the shooting community really is actually really small in the UK. Yeah, so we are. Yeah, you probably know more people than you actually think you know because you've met them. I suppose social media makes them, makes you think that you know a lot more people, but it's actually when you do do meet them in the real world, it's, um, hopefully it's a pleasant experience yeah, it's nice to get, it's nice to put a face you know to it and actually get to know them.

Speaker 2:

Like you say, you can feel like you know them, but you don't, um, but to actually get to you know, people say to me well, how do you know him? I'm like oh, we met on instagram. They're like, which mean you met on instagram, you know, but you sort of just follow each other and you get chatting and you swap stories or recommendations and then it just kind of goes from there really yeah, no, and I think that that's key, and social media has as two.

Speaker 3:

It's kind of it's a double-edged sword, isn't it? Because you can. You can meet a load of really nice people that are really helpful and want to to give you the right information, but there's also a very dark side to it of of jealousy and people that are just out there to sort of not all my well. It is bullying, really, isn't it? And I, I don't. Yeah, it's actually an interesting one for you, because as a male, I probably don't get it as much, but is that something that you've had on this platform?

Speaker 2:

yeah, definitely, and I think it's um, it's interesting how Facebook and Instagram can be so different. So I was very Instagram based to begin with. People get sent to me. You need to do Facebook as well and I was like, okay, I'll, you know, I'll give it a go. I find I prefer Instagram and I always say I find there's less weirdos on Instagram, but I don't know why, because they're two very similar platforms that are very public and open to everyone. But on Facebook I probably on Facebook, it's not evenating.

Speaker 2:

I think I get a minimum of 100 friends requests a day and the messages I just you can't even read them and some of them are horrible. Some of them are just, I tend not to dwell on it and look at it as a bad. You know too much of a bad thing, but you know it's. Oh, you know, you know, are you single? Do you want to meet up? And um, just, you know, that's not what I'm there for. I'm there to show my journey and what I enjoy and some of the messages you get I can think of, really, for god's sake. But I've got to a point now where I just ignore, don't respond, block if I need to. I've had some really, really horrible threatening messages before and I used to really let it worry me and get me down. But now I just think I'm not doing anything wrong.

Speaker 2:

You know I'm doing something that I enjoy, I like to. You know I'm doing it in the right way. You know it's each to their own. I don't try and rub it in people's faces. You know I've got friends that are vegans and vegetarians and I'm open to hearing their story. You know I don't shove it in their face what I do, and vice versa. You know I'm very open-minded. If you want to be a vegetarian, that's absolutely fine. Um, so I think you've just got to take it with a pinch of salt, not let it get to you. Um, it's hard, it's even now when I post on that. Oh god, what are people going to? Am I going to get any? Most of the time, all I get is you've spelt that wrong. You've spelt that wrong.

Speaker 3:

I wish people would tell me that I've spelt it wrong. Obviously, as I said, being dyslexic, nobody ever mentions that, but I find when I do post, I'm very. I have two totally different way of posting things. I have two totally different ways of posting things. Obviously, facebook is very sensitive of what you post on there, because it does give you a completely different reaction, whereas Instagram you can post an educational feed of a deer, some growlick explaining about glands, and it goes down completely differently to if you posted that on Facebook. It's a bizarre one.

Speaker 2:

It is funny, isn't it?

Speaker 3:

Because, like I say, they're both pretty much the same it's all open to the public and the same sort of people, but it just seems to be worked completely differently yeah, I wonder whether or not there's a different demographic, though, that actually use the Facebook platform as it's been open for so long, compared to, like the Instagram platform, which was more just for photos and a lot of people. You speak to them, they go oh, I don't use Instagram, and maybe, maybe that's the difference, because, well, it then leads us on to yeah, you've been doing that, but it leads you on to all the deer stalking forums and stuff like that. Are you members of those and do you get involved in the heated debates and and watching the the whole thing unfold and go. I've typed this message. Shall I post it? No, I better delete that.

Speaker 2:

Delete, delete, delete. Yeah, it's funny, I am on some of the forums and I get invited to a lot of forums. Again, I'm very open and honest in that. You know, I will only join what I think. You know I won't just accept everything everyone sends me. If I'm not interested in it, I'm not interested in it. I'm not interested in it. You know, um, but I will see the debates and sometimes you see stuff that you think, oh, I don't really agree with that.

Speaker 2:

But I just keep my opinion to myself. You know you don't know the circumstances around. You know people have said to me before that wasn't a safe shot and I'm like, but were you there? You're not seeing what I'm seeing and actually taking a video off of the scope and then uploading it to Instagram. By the time it gets there, the quality I mean I'm not very good with technology, but the quality of it by the time it gets there, I heard people it actually looks a lot better than that through the scope. Like I'm telling you the scope's really good. It looks really bad on there. But I think unless you're there in the moment, you can't really judge. You can look and say, oh, I don't know, but you don't know the circumstances around it. So I just think, just keep my opinion. I don't need to give my opinion, do you know? I mean, I don't need to say, oh, I don't agree with that. You know, that's what they want to do and that's, that's fine.

Speaker 3:

I think, yeah, if you shoot enough, then you understand exactly what's needed. I think when you start looking at these forums and it's the guy that goes out and maybe shoots one deer a year, who is suddenly an absolute expert and can tell you everything that you're doing wrong, it's like, well, ok, yeah, come and come and have some time on the hill with me and we'll test you and see how good you are, kind of thing and people do miss and things do go wrong.

Speaker 2:

But that is exactly, yeah. I had a particularly bad couple of days a few weekends ago and that's why I zeroed my gun at work tonight, because I was sure there must have been something wrong with the gun.

Speaker 3:

But it turns out it was absolutely bang on, so I can only put it down to operator error on that one and these things happen, and and, and I think that as exactly that, when you, when you're out shooting enough, it doesn't matter how good you are, things go wrong, and you can, you will, you will miss deer and and you'll miss foxes, and you think, well, that was all perfect. What's gone on there?

Speaker 3:

yeah follow it following a hind up. Here's a. We were on the hill so the client took the shot. Um, looked a good hit. But it was like, well, it's still moving. So I took another shot at it and thought I'd missed it. And it's still moving. So eventually you run off down the hill, leave the client up on the top, dive off down the hill, probably got to with a hundred yards of it and and headshot it. By the time I went to inspect it I was like, well, that's the client's shot, got it back to the larder. I did hit it, bang on where I thought I'd hit it. And it's just things like that that you go through all of this process and it knocks you. It. Will you have to think it go? Well, did I miss that? How is my confidence?

Speaker 2:

But actually, when you get it to the large and you look at it, you go, oh, these things do happen yeah, and I think you know to begin with I'd get very disheartened by it and you know I'd miss this and miss that and go. That's it. I'm not doing it now. Do you know what I mean? I just I used to get so frustrated by it and think, well, I can't do it, I'm no good at it, but we all have good days, we all have bad days.

Speaker 2:

There's generally always a reason behind it and it could be your place, your finger placement on the trigger was different, or you know, there's, there's all. There's so many contributing factors, you know, to it. It could be so many different things, but I think you've just got to pick yourself up, dust yourself off. But I think it's a good thing in a way, because you'll probably know yourself like your main goal is to take that shot and not wound the animal. You know, to get a clean kill. And I think that's why you can be so hard on yourself, because you're like I can't get this wrong. I don't want to get this wrong. You know, I want to get a clean shot and it, you know it's done. You don't want to make the animal suffer. So I think that's why you put a lot of pressure on yourself as well, because you want it to go right yeah, no, and I think I think you're absolutely right and I think that's that's the key.

Speaker 3:

If you can pick yourself up from it, crack on and go had a bad day, tomorrow will be better. You just keep going. I think if you, if you give up, it that's, that's when the it sets in, and you, you doubt yourself every time you go out and eventually you, you give up doing what you want to do play shooting and shotgun shooting.

Speaker 3:

I have however given up on well, the problem is, I think that that's one of those things that you're so used to shooting a rifle. Uh, to go and shoot a shotgun, it's you have to switch your brain off and go. I just keep moving the gun. And to go and shoot a shotgun, it's you have to switch your brain off and go. I just keep moving the gun and and that's it. And, and it's probably one of those things if you get watched or you've had somebody training you to to shoot a shotgun, I guarantee you they'll go your rifle shooting it.

Speaker 2:

You probably stop at the target every time and it's gone behind well, I struggled as well because I'm right-handed but I'm left eye dominant right so with a rifle I'll I can. I've learned to shoot right and left with my rifle quite easily, so whichever direction it goes in, I can switch fantastic but, I am more accurate with my left eye.

Speaker 2:

For me, a shotgun left-handed, I can do it. And then I go to break the barrel and I'm like, hang on, which way do my feet go, and which way it's? It's not natural, you know, with a rifle you just sort of have to reload, job done, but you know, breaking the barrel and oh, hang on, which pocket am I? I don't know, it just doesn't work in my brain and it. So I can only shoot shotguns right-handed. I have tried left and maybe if I persisted more it would work so you're gonna have to get yourself one of those funky looking stocks.

Speaker 3:

Have you ever seen the crossover stock?

Speaker 2:

I have got so my shotgun. Now it's not a complete crossover, but everyone says to me I've got a wonky gun. They look at my gun and go, jesus Christ, that's wonky. Um, I say it still doesn't work for me. Again we say you've got to dust yourself up and carry on. But I think I have lost a lot of confidence in shotgun shooting. Um, you know, the other week my partner says well, we've been invited to a pheasant day, do you want to do it? And I said that's a lot of money for me to miss all the birds. I'll just come with the dog and I'll pick up behind you because I just but I think you know I am I enjoying the rifle shooting more. You know, I can sort of take it or leave it with the shotgun. So I actually enjoy more going out with a dog. You know, like picking up behind him. I had such a good day working my dog, yeah, and I loved it. You know I didn't have to be behind the gun.

Speaker 3:

I still had a fantastic day and that's what it all boils down to at the end. I think on a day on the pheasants and stuff like that, I was. We were out on a rough shoot the other day and it's like it didn't. I think I shot two cartridges, but it was the still going out just for a laugh, having a bit of fun, having the banter, everything that goes with it. That's the day out, isn't it? Realistically, and I think that if you enjoy just being there working the dog, that can be just as much fun as actually pulling the trigger yeah, exactly, you know that's kind of where I started was with the dogs, and you put so much effort into training them.

Speaker 3:

You know you want to put your hard work to use and hope that it goes right and you're not standing there blowing the whistle and calling the dog and the dog's three fields away and it's like oh no, that's my dog.

Speaker 2:

I was actually. I was actually that I took her out on a week before for her first ever day and she was so well behaved, so good. So I was like, amazing, I'll take her again on this day. And it was all being filmed for a YouTube channel. Well, she obviously knew, because that was it straight off to the duck pond and I was like I can't even I'm being recorded. So I'm just like, please come back thinking I just want to scream at you yeah, I'm just gonna shout at my dog get in the house, but it doesn't.

Speaker 3:

You can't, can't do that because you've got to look right on tv.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely but it's the same with shooting it doesn't always go to plan. Sometimes it does. You know, they're animals. At the end of the day, they're like us. They have good days and they have bad days exactly, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

Anyway, I think we've probably covered everything, unless there's any questions. You've got that you want to fire or anybody's asked you anything or anything like that that you want to talk about.

Speaker 2:

I don't think so. I think we've pretty much covered it all.

Speaker 3:

I think I think we have. No, it's not. It's sometimes people have, um, like richie got a load of questions sent to him that he wanted to talk about and stuff like that. But no, that's cool, I think we'll draw it to a close there. So, uh, thank you ever so much for coming on. That's all right, that's no problem at all. First ever podcast well, there you go, you can, and make sure you share it and tell everybody to listen to the podcast I will thank you very much no worries at all.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed that. I am trying to get one more podcast out just before the festive period starts, give you all something to listen to, and hopefully into the new year. We've got a load of new guests lined up, so we will carry on doing what we're doing again. If there's anybody that's interested in suggesting somebody I should get on the show or something they want me to talk about, I've had a few suggestions already, so they will be podcasts that will be produced. Then drop us a. Drop us a message, either via the socials or an email or any other method you want, and we'll try and get it recorded for you. Anyway, have a good one.