The Outdoor Gibbon

38 Hunting 101: What Nobody Tells You About Breaking Into the Field

• The Outdoor Gibbon • Season 1 • Episode 38

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Breaking into field sports can feel like trying to crack a secret code, but seasoned hunters know it's all about relationships and patience. This candid conversation tackles the questions newcomers struggle with most – from securing that elusive land permission to choosing the right firearm and understanding proper wildlife management.

When approaching landowners, leave the camo at home. Show up presentable, start with offering to help with pest problems, and gradually build trust. The podcast reveals how this stepping-stone approach – from pigeons to rabbits to foxes and eventually deer – opens doors that remain firmly closed to those who rush. Valuable alternatives include joining local shoots as a beater, networking with gamekeepers, and becoming known as someone reliable and safety-conscious. These connections often yield invitations that money simply can't buy.

For aspiring deerstalkers, practical paths include finding a mentor, taking DSC1/PDS1 qualifications, or investing in guided stalking days with reputable guides genuinely interested in education. The "best caliber" question gets a refreshingly practical treatment, with recommendations based on versatility rather than debates: consider a .22LR for small game, a .223 for foxes and smaller deer, and a .308 for larger species – though personal comfort and intended use should guide your final choice.

The conversation closes with a crucial perspective on deer management. With UK deer populations at historic highs since Roman times, ethical hunters play a vital ecological role. True wildlife management isn't about trophy hunting but requires controlling female deer numbers to maintain balance. Unfortunately, territorial attitudes among some stalkers undermine effective management – a reminder that collaboration between neighboring land managers serves wildlife better than competition.

Whether you're contemplating your first steps into field sports or looking to expand your horizons, this concise guide offers genuine wisdom earned through years of experience. Leave a review if you found this helpful – it keeps the podcast visible for others seeking the same guidance.

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Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to another edition of the Outdoor Gibbon podcast. As you'll have noticed, things have changed slightly. We've got a bit of intro music. There is more of that to come. Hope you like it. Feedback's always welcome. It'd be really good to know what you think.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, it's been a while since I've just done a chat me without a guest in tow, so I just thought we've had a few people asking different questions. Along the way, I've done a few polls of things that people wanted to know. I'll try and answer a few of those in this short podcast. Anyway, let's get started and we'll see how we get on.

Speaker 2:

So one of the main questions that I've always been asked is land permission and how you go about getting it. I think it differs for absolutely everybody, but some of the big pointers I think we touched on in a couple of other podcasts with people. It's one of those things that, um, you've got to just knock on doors and ask the question and you'll probably get a lot of no's. But don't worry about that. Don't let it sort of put you off. You just keep trying the. The main thing to do if you're ever gonna go and try and get land is not to rock up in your camouflage or scruffy looking clothing is actually turn up, quite presentable, maybe put a shirt on, nice, pair of jeans, pair of clean boots, rock up, knock on the door. Don't ever expect it to be. Oh yeah, of course, bring a firearm onto my land, come and shoot, no problem at all. The chances at that point will be very slim. However, if you go there with no expectations and it may well be a case that you have to start small, for example, you turn up at a farm you might be able to say I notice you've got some feral pigeons in your barn. Would it be possible for me to bring an air rifle and maybe shoot a few of these feral pigeons now? Sometimes the farmer will say no. However, sometimes the farmer will be like oh, actually somebody to come and take some feral pigeons out? Yeah, yeah, you can do that, that's no problem. You've only got an air rifle, perfectly safe. Work on that. Build that relationship up, step it up to the next thing. Maybe shoot some rabbits. Potentially, after that, get to know him a bit better, you might get onto the fox and maybe in the end, you might well be able to get onto that, that monster which is. You can broach the subject of deer. But if you try and run before you can walk, the chances are the door will be closed and there will always be somebody else that has the permission on the land. But if you start small and ask the right questions, it's great other ways to potentially get your foot in the door.

Speaker 2:

Don't be afraid to turn up as a beater on a shoot day. Turn up, offer your help. Just do what the keeper says go beating and from that you will meet people. You will talk to people. Those people will be able to offer advice and get yourself known. Be helpful. Don't be a moany beater that gets there and you just whinge about everything and want your money and be gone. Stay at the end, offer to help, see if the keeper wants help. Feeding up at the end of the season or start of the season, helping clear feeders up, wash stuff down all of these little things. Basically tick boxes and then you get remembered.

Speaker 2:

So the next time you go back and you say, oh, would it be possible to come out and help you with the foxes? That's always a good start, would it be? You might even get an invitation to come out and help with some vermin control, at which point you can prove that you're safe with a gun. Go forward. The keeper might be like well, time goes by, I know you're safe with a gun. You ask him could I go and do the foxes? No problem again.

Speaker 2:

If you want deer land, don't expect the deer to be given to you. Most estates have got something in play that the policy, how they they sell their deer and all the rest of it. But by working your way up and building up that relationship, there will always possibly, there's always the possibility that you could actually maybe have a deer off there. And if after a period of time you'll meet more of the beaters and one of those might have a stalking permission, that stalking permission might lead to a syndicate, then that opens the door to get you, basically your, some of your own stalking land. As I say, it's never a given. It's a slow, slow process. I think most of the land I've ever worked on has been a very slow process. Or it becomes word of mouth that you're good at what you do, you're safe, you're courteous, and then the next door neighbor finds out that you stalk on some land or you do some shooting for them. The next thing you know they're saying oh well, we've got problems with rabbits, could you come in and do that? You start with the rabbits, the rabbits turn into deer, so it's just take your time and eventually you'll get there. But that's pretty much all I can really say about land permissions.

Speaker 2:

It's one of those gray areas. Everywhere is different. If you're down in the southeast of england, everybody wants that piece of land and there's not enough land to go around. If you're in the north of england it's. Some of them are bigger states but sometimes there's more land available and there's less people willing to shoot it. If you're in Scotland, a lot of the land is obviously estate land, so you're not really going to get on it, but you're going to be able to help out the keepers and things like that and that way foot in the door and then the next thing you know is somebody that comes on the shoot is a farmer and he's potentially got a little bit of forestry or something like that you can get on to. So that would be my top tips for for land at the end of the day.

Speaker 2:

So one of the next questions that somebody put forward was can I recommend, like a favorite book, hunting book? Um, I'm seriously dyslexic and reading has never been something that I've ever enjoyed doing. I think I got halfway through a book on my honeymoon and I still haven't finished it. I've maybe read a couple of books, but unless it's a manual or an engineering book or something like that, reading for reading for pleasure just doesn't do me. The only one book I did read from start to finish was a very old book by jem rougher and it's called good shooting.

Speaker 2:

It's all a guide to shooting with a shotgun how you go through mounting the gun, talking about the shotgun, firing practice, cartridges, behavior went out on a shoot day, etiquette, including, like talking about if. Well, the bit that always sticks out for me is the comment of if I told you to point with your finger at an object in your lounge, say, you're sitting in your lounge listening to this now, or sitting in the car driving and somebody says to me point at the steering wheel or point at the gear stick or point at the coffee cup on the table, instinctively your finger just goes to it. Even if you don't look at it, you know exactly where it is and you'll pretty much be pointing at it. And he talks about that being the art of a good shooter. With a shotgun, you make the shotgun like your finger, you point the shotgun, you push the shotgun at the target and I tell you what, if you take those tips on board, it's well written and it's written in the time. That's a fantastic book and it was something that did get me.

Speaker 2:

However, other hunting books and stuff like that I haven't really found anything. I think I've read a few about pheasant shoots and stuff like that, but only like flicked through the pages. Started reading a few dog training books but never got anywhere with those. I've got a couple on bow hunting, because obviously that's another passion of mine, but again, nothing I've really read cover to cover. So the only one if you were ever looking for it and you wanted to get into um, go through all the etiquettes of of a pheasant day and shooting with a shotgun is this good shooting by jem rougher um. I searched it online and managed to find a copy. It's a little hardback but yeah, that that would be the one that I found really interesting.

Speaker 2:

So another question was asked is how do you go about getting into deerstalking? I think we covered that really early on in the podcast and it was one of those things that you want to become a deerstalker. I would either find somebody that you know that is a deerstalker and basically become their shadow, offered to go out. Don't want to do it. Just follow them around, understand what's going on. That's, that's one good way, because at some point you'll be asked do you want to have a shot? And you can start with that. Show that you're helpful and things will work.

Speaker 2:

But, as I said, a lot, of, a lot of people with deerst stalking can be quite possessive over their land and they're worried that if they show you you'll be there to steal it. So the the next option is to get yourself enrolled on either the dsc1 or the pds1. Yes, you might not even have a rifle at the moment, but actually if you go and do that course, you're going to sit there and you're going to meet people, you're going to talk to those people and I think, as I discussed in an early podcast of mine, the first proper deer stalking I got was an invitation from the guys on my dsc1 course. I ended up going to ireland and that's where my my stalking passion grew from, basically because I had that invitation. So again, the DSC1 course is a great place, or the PDS1, is a great place to meet people and and develop that relationship. The other thing to do is again it goes back to, as we just spoke to earlier in this podcast join a local shoot, help out with the beating things like that. You'll meet other people that do shooting potentially other deer stalkers. Get talking to them more insight.

Speaker 2:

Social media can be a great place as well, but obviously it has its pros and its cons. Social media is is full of absolutely wonderful people, but it's also full of people that produce a lot of fake information. They pretend they're deer stalkers, but they may only shoot one or two deer a year. They pretend they're keepers, but they have no idea when it comes to things. But that's just social media for you. You can find people out very quickly. You can ask the questions. The guys that are really doing the right stuff out there generally have met people. They're happy to invite you along or take you out and show you what it's all about.

Speaker 2:

The third option to get into this stalking world is to actually go and pay for a day. Now, it can be quite daunting because obviously you're about to to pay somebody to take you out either on the lowland or the highland, but I can probably put you in touch with people that have done it. And yeah, the daunting fear is there and there's. There's always a starting point, but sometimes it's a good experience. Sometimes it's not, but the best thing you could do there is to actually spend that bit more time researching who you want to go out with. People that have come to me have asked lots of questions and I'm always never afraid to answer them. That's one of the big things. If the guy that you're going to go stalking with or the lady you're going to go stalking with is willing to give you lots of information and be quite happy to talk to you, happy days, you're probably on to a good place. If they're more interested in taking your money but nothing else, probably say avoid them in the long run. But those would be the tips for for how to get into stalking.

Speaker 2:

And here's the sort of the million dollar question everybody asks. It's on every single facebook, instagram feed. Um, it's the question that's all over the places like the stalking directory and things like that what's the best caliber? We could be here all night, I, I. It's a really tricky subject because it all depends on what you plan to hunt with, what you plan to do with that caliber? Is it going to be your only rifle, etc. Etc. Etc.

Speaker 2:

A lot of police forces want to give you as an initial rifle, usually seems to be the 243. That's the most common, obviously. It's a fantastic round. It will do everything from fox control to most of the deer species. You do hear people they'll say they shoot reds with a 243. It is doable, yeah, but it's one of those things. It's more accuracy and shot placement for that. So if you are going to be a lowland hunter and it's going to be the smaller deer species, for example the muntjac, chinese water deer, roe then a 243 would cover you for everything. I've always.

Speaker 2:

Well, the three calibers that I recommend would and you can't go far wrong because I think there's ammunition available anywhere in the world would be a .22LR, a .223 or NATO 5.56 and the .308, which is the 7.62. The reason for that is you've basically covered everything in the UK, so you've got your .22LR. Is is a small, fantastic rifle for for rabbit, small game. Dispatch your 223 in england. You can do muntjac, I believe, with that and chinese water deer, but it's also a great foxing round, nice and flat, cheap to run, and then you've got your 308, which would cover you for everything from your fallow, your seeker, all the way up to your reds. That would be. That's my personal choice, and it's one I've always recommended to people. I did start off with a 243 at the end of

Speaker 2:

the day, but it's. It's one of those things that, as you change and you speak to people, you'll find different things out, but if you ask this question on a social media platform, what's the best caliber? You've just opened up the door to everybody. Telling thing to do, though, is whoever you're going to be going stalking with, or your mentor or I don't know it's difficult to say or just go and shoot a few. If you can find people that have got access to a range, or even a club day or something like that, go shoot some different calibers. You might find that your build or the type of person you are, you suddenly stick yourself behind a, a good old thumpy 270 or a 308 or a 3006, and you're like I don't want to shoot that. It hurts, but you go, actually, to be honest, down in my area. I don't need anything that big, so a 243

Speaker 2:

would be perfect again. Another big decision is what type of ammunition are you going to use? Are you going to go non-toxic? Are you going to use lead? Things like that? Have a big, big sort of constraint as to what you're going to buy, because obviously the 243 doesn't particularly like a non-toxic ammunition, just because of the nature of the twist rate and the type of rifle it is and the size of the bullet. So again, that's where you might need to go up to a 6.5 creedmoor or even a 308 or a 270, because at that point they will quite happily run non-toxic ammunition. If you're going to shoot lead, the world's open to you. Really Everything's available. I think the piece of advice I would give you is if you're going to go out and do something like this, go and try a few first. It will

Speaker 2:

make a huge difference. And the last question for this short podcast is the importance of deer colling. In the United Kingdom, I think at the moment the deer population is at its all-time high, probably the highest it's been since the romans were here. So management of deer is vital with they don't have any natural predators. Um, we disposed of all the wolves because they didn't just eat deer, they ate all our domesticated livestock. So it's down to people like us, the hunters, to go out there and manage deer. If we don't manage the deer, then the government employ contractors who are paid to come in and shoot the deer. They're not really deer stalkers, so they're basically taking away the fun part of it. They are just rabbit shooters at the end of the day. They're going out to do a job, to squeeze the trigger to put a deer down. They get paid for it and they get

Speaker 2:

put in the chiller. If you have a syndicate or you have land to manage deer on, it's really important that you actually kind of come up with a bit of a plan as to how many deer you're going to take off it and work together with your neighbors. So at least you know who's doing what. Because look at the problems we've got down in the south of england. Well, down in england, for example, you've got superherds of fallow. Why have we got superherds of fallow? It's because the numbers are out of control. Maybe because the land that they're shot on, the person that's on there, only ever wants to take clients out to shoot a decent sized buck. Well, of course, if he's not managing the does or your number of fallow deer are going to grow exponentially and if you've got a herd of a hundred, if every one of those has a kid or a youngster, suddenly that that population is growing massively. Muntjac are on the rise. They're moving up and down the country. They seem to have settled in quite happily. People need to be out shooting more of those. But again, it's this thing. There's a very, very big problem with deer stalkers throughout the UK and it's a green-eyed monster that comes out. As soon as you mention deer land,

Speaker 2:

everybody becomes very protective. I saw a post today about one of the shooting forums. Somebody's put a high seat up on somebody's boundary. Oh, what's going on there? They're probably going to shoot into my land. Go and talk to the landowner. Go talk to the person that's there, make contact. It may well be a simple thing that the guy's worked out. The only place he's going to get a shot of is as that deer comes out to the fence line. But I've got land up here where we share a boundary. The deal is if it's on my side, no problem, it's my shoot. But if it's 100 yards on my side and they've come out of their wood, my tenant can the, the neighbor can shoot them, and it goes the same for the other way. If it's 100 yards into the wood from my side, I can shoot it. It's basically

Speaker 2:

it's sharing the land. At the end of the day, we've got a job to be done. We need to manage the deer. We need to take the numbers down. If you're out there only to shoot the metal or the nice piece of wood on its head, you're not managing deer. If you're out there to shoot the female deer and you're happy to shoot them, that is managing deer, because those are the ones that breed

Speaker 2:

and produce the youngsters. We see big articles about heavy populations of red deer on the hill and stuff like that. There are large numbers of deer and there are large herds and you've seen photos that I've put up. But there's a reason they're being driven around the place. Things like forestry commission are fencing off bits of the land, heavy shooting or new activities occurring on different estates, for example, maybe a game shoot or simulated game has occurred. Well, at the time when those deer would have been moving down into the lower lands and things like that. They're not because they're being driven out. So these deer are grouping together and the

Speaker 2:

numbers seem to increase. We uh it it's. It's a real struggle at the end of the day to know what's right and what's wrong, but you definitely have. There are definitely problems with large herds of fallow, but then roe deer are growing and their population density is getting there. If you want to find out about the population density, the british deer society have density maps that you can go and have a look at and see where the deer are in your area. Those maps will cover everything and you can look at all the species and what's going on and basically see what the density of deer would be in your area. So it's really handy if you're about to go and try and get some land or take a lease on. Gives you some idea of what species you're going to be able to shoot at or shoot and and how dense, how, what the population is of that deer so, uh, yeah, deer do need to be managed.

Speaker 2:

There is an importance in culling them, and culling them is not just shooting the male deer, which scottish government seem to think it is. It's actually shooting the female deer, and that is managing a population at the end of the day. So, yeah, that's me going through those questions. I've been asked just a few of them. Hopefully it's been something of interest. It's a very short podcast, but I might do a few more of these. They're just one of those things for somebody that's on the commute or something like that. Anyway, we'll catch you on the next one.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening to this short podcast. Uh, answering a few questions for you. Sorry about the annoying buzz that was going through. Uh, it was actually, uh, the disc station backing up, uh, all my drives and um, completely forgot that it was switched on and you can just hear it coming through on the microphone. Anyway, we've cleared all of that up. What I would ask you to do is, if you have enjoyed this, please leave a comment or leave a review. Give it one of those five star ratings, whatever it needs. Every time you do that. It's really, really handy for us. It keeps us fresh in the the algorithms and it keeps us up in the chart. Anyway, you really want to listen to the next podcast that we've got coming up. It's gonna be a good one.