The Outdoor Gibbon
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The Outdoor Gibbon
41 Exploring Hunting Heritage and Conservation with Robbie
How does one transition from an urban upbringing in Johannesburg to becoming a key voice in the global hunting and conservation community? Join us as we unravel the compelling journey of Robbie, the brain behind Blood Origins. Robbie dives into his personal story, sharing how his family's hunting heritage shaped his passion for the outdoors and how he found his true calling after a career in wetland ecology. His narrative is a testament to the enduring importance of preserving hunting traditions and dispelling widespread misconceptions.
We shine a light on the diverse, global community of hunters and conservationists, underscoring the significance of learning from various practices worldwide. Our conversation touches on the untapped potential of regenerative agriculture and the detrimental effects of irresponsible hunting behaviors on public perception. Robbie's insights into creating positive, educational content are exemplified by the "Wine and Water" documentary, illustrating the benefits of hunting in places like Zimbabwe. This episode is a clarion call to present an accurate and respectful image of hunters and conservationists working in harmony for the planet's well-being.
Finally, we discuss the cultural nuances of hunting perceptions, particularly in the UK, and explore the roots and evolution of Blood Origins. With highlights on mainstream influencers like Jeremy Clarkson who have shifted public attitudes, we delve into the necessity of engaging non-hunting communities. Robbie's heartfelt storytelling aims to capture the essence of hunting, moving beyond stereotypes and fostering a deeper understanding. Don't miss out on this thought-provoking conversation that encourages listeners to actively participate and continue the dialogue through various interactive platforms.
and welcome to another episode of the outdoor given Goodman Podcast. On this episode we will be talking to Robbie. He is the creator of Blood Origins. If you don't follow them, you really should. They cover topics throughout the world, anything to do with hunting, raising awareness, all sorts of wonderful stuff. It's worth having a look on their Insta feed or their Facebook, or even just going to their main website. It's worth having a look on their Insta feed or their Facebook, or even just going to their main website. But we'll get on with the main podcast shortly and we'll have a chat with Robbie.
Peter Gibbon:So it's August. Good grief, the year seems to have flown by absolutely rapidly. It means we've got 12 days before the glorious 12th and the start of flying game. That'll be duck, wildfowl, pheasants, partridge, you name it. It, uh, it all, all is back in season.
Peter Gibbon:It only felt like yesterday that we were finishing off the pheasant and partridge days, so we've been adding a few more touches to the podcast. You can now see that if you log on to the buzzsprout site or actually I think it's on any, any of the feeds you can now send us a text message, so you can click on the link and drop a message in there and it's kind of a bit like fan mail. We'll be able to look at it if we get some good, good points and things like that. We will have a little q? A, possibly at the end of each podcast, just recapping some of the questions that have been asked. So so if you'd like to hear your question answered at the end of a podcast, send us a message via that format and we'll do our best to answer it and you'll get your answer on the next podcast.
Peter Gibbon:Again, if you like what you're listening to and you can please go and give us a review, click that five star button and leave a little comment or something like that, either via the iTunes app or Spotify or whatever other streaming platform you listen to. All of those reviews help and they keep us up in the chart so that more people can find the podcast. As well as that, if you share it, that would be really helpful. Anyway, let's get started and listen to my chat with Robbie. Hello and welcome to the outdoor given podcast. Today we have got robbie, the creator of the blood origins podcast on the line how you doing, oh, pretty good, pretty good.
Robbie Kroger:Yeah, the podcast, uh, certainly one thing, one way to get our voice out there, but we've got lots and lots and lots of other things tied to Blood Origins.
Peter Gibbon:I was gonna say, yeah, it's not just the podcast. Obviously I found you because of the podcast and listening to some of the the fantastic bits that you do. But uh, yeah, there's a. There's a whole other backstory. We'll come to that in a second because obviously one of my main questions that I ask everybody that comes on the podcast is how did you get into sort of the hunting? Is it something that was in the family? Is it something that you've done for a long time? Was it something you've just discovered?
Robbie Kroger:yeah, I never hunted when I grew up. Man, I grew up in a massive town in south africa called johannesburg, so eight and a half million people. And uh, in south africa called johannesburg, so eight and a half million people, and uh, you know, it's almost like growing up in downtown london or downtown los angeles or whatever right, you don't, even if you're not exposed to hunting, you're not in the hunting world, you don't have friends that hunt. You're you.
Robbie Kroger:You're the kind of person that we're trying to speak to, which is hold on, I, I've got hey, I got two little dogs with me right now I know everyone, um, I mean, I'm, I was the kind of person that I wanted to speak to, like that I'm speaking to today, which is, um, someone who's ambivalent to hunting, someone who doesn't really know anything about hunting. They may have a negative perception of hunting because of seeing x and y on social media, but my family was steeped in hunting heritage. My grandfather was a huge hunter in russia, in germany, um, and then when he moved to mozambique, in, so he lived the heyday of Africa for 20 years before revolution hit Mozambique in the middle of the seventies. But all I got was stories. I got stories, I got trophies on the wall and the stories I got was in the written form, not in the oral form.
Robbie Kroger:Like, my grandfather was sort of the old school archetype, right, he didn't. Kids were to be seen, not heard, okay, with my grandfather and uh, so, yeah, we never got regaled stories of like hippos crashing into boats and knocking them over whilst they were, you know, 10 sheets to the wind, going home one evening from duck hunting. Um, I got all those in the written word, essentially okay, so I just, yeah, I never grew up hunting. I was not never in the hunting space, hunting industry space, um, until I had my boys, and I was living in America at the time and, yeah, I just started this idea that has now blossomed into into blood origins?
Peter Gibbon:yeah, because your background is you were a lecturer, I believe, in biology or something along those lines, and then obviously you've moved on and pushed forward to this, this whole sort of conservation idea that you're getting out yeah, so I have a PhDd.
Robbie Kroger:I came to the states to do a phd. I'm a wetland ecologist by training. I love swamps, okay, um, and and so really what I did was, once I've got my phd, I was a professor at a university here in the states for six years in the wildlife fisheries department. Right and um, that really led me. You know, I've always had a conservation bend to me. Um, I've always enjoyed conservation, I've always enjoyed wildlife conservation. So that's always been a thread within what I do, how I do it, regardless of whether it was in the university setting.
Robbie Kroger:You know, in america, specifically in the southeast, when you're hunting for white tailed deer, if you get into the hunting white tail deer world, there's a lot of restoration, a lot of management, a lot of wildlife management that goes into that system. Yeah, um, and so you know, I I helped friends with Farms. I did a little bit of that work on the side. So really the whole wildlife conservation side has always been there, even from a young age. I wasn't involved in hunting back in South Africa, but I was involved in game ranging. That was like my outlet. Every young boy in South Africa wants to be that Land Rover jockey and driving people around and showing them lions and elephants and stuff like that.
Robbie Kroger:And that's what I wanted to do and I did it Again. I had no idea of the sort of hunting world and what it did for wildlife and what it did for habitat, but south africa would have been a completely different.
Robbie Kroger:Obviously, the way the states works and the hunting works and everything and the conservation works out there, south africa probably is miles apart from it but very close to it in other ways as well yeah, I would say, yeah, complete opposite ends of the spectrum, a public system versus a private system, right, yeah, um, south africa is more like texas in the way that it's set up, yeah, but, um, arguably, you know, north america and south africa, the two greatest wildlife success stories and on the planet today, absolutely, with hunting embedded as a foundational element. If you didn't, if you didn't know, Well, I was literally just.
Peter Gibbon:I've just managed to catch hold of a director called Tom. What's?
Robbie Kroger:his name, tom Opry. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, and he's just been to Scotland's. Yeah, he just done a film?
Peter Gibbon:yeah, fantastic, brilliant. Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And he's just been to scotland and he's just done his, uh, his release of uh, the last keeper the last keeper and again chatting to him and talking about things there.
Peter Gibbon:It's, it's one of those things. It's we've all. We're all in the same boat. We all want to keep what we do alive. Unfortunately, we're all in the same boat. We all want to keep what we do alive. Unfortunately, we're all under the scrutiny, exactly as you said, of everything else that's going on Social media and people that are out there that don't have an idea, but they've read it, they've seen a picture of it, and it's always the worst thing, isn't it that they grab hold of and we're all murderers. That's what it is yeah, unfortunately we have.
Robbie Kroger:We, like every industry in this world, have bad apples. Yep, um, and unfortunately, because of who we are and what we do, which is we kill animals, those bad apples tied in with killing things, it sort of puts us, puts our bad apples on steroids.
Robbie Kroger:It does yeah yeah, yeah, and it's just something you can't, you can't avoid, you can't change them, and they give us, like you know, we put five steps in the positive direction, they'll remove 15 in a heartbeat and I think that's the biggest problem and I think that's where I know I'm only a very small podcast.
Peter Gibbon:I have a listener base that is growing, but there's something like you guys are. You're right out there. You're on 400 odd podcasts now. It's phenomenal. Well, I was listening to one of yours the other day, the podcast where you were talking to the conservationist in Australia doing the….
Robbie Kroger:Regenerative agriculture.
Peter Gibbon:Regenerative agriculture and it's just like hang on a minute, that's so what Scotland needs. This whole thing about the deer, damaging trees and everything like that, it was like that's all we need, and Tom and I were talking about this.
Robbie Kroger:So, again, if everything comes together for a whole reason and listening to that podcast, it was yeah, it was fantastic yeah, you know, I think again, we're all on the same boat, um, and blood origins has taken it upon themselves to sort of build this global community in which we can talk to people all over the world. We have people who engage us from all over the world in truly sort of just like you know, being able to speak to you know. What does your hunting system look like? What? What troubles are you having? What rhetoric challenges are you having? Are those rhetoric challenges are the same as what's happening in england, same as what's happening in? Challenges are the same as what's happening in England, same as what's happening in California, same as what's happening in South Africa? Okay, we can all just start learning from this and growing our voice collectively.
Peter Gibbon:Yeah, no, I completely agree.
Robbie Kroger:I think our biggest problem is it's those bad apples that really are that, unfortunately, well, I'm sure you saw the guy who you know know, ran over a wolf with a snowmobile and taped up his mouth. Did you see that? I haven't seen that, no oh, thank the lord, you didn't see it no, is that?
Peter Gibbon:that's something? Obviously.
Robbie Kroger:That's uh, that's gone around social media in the states, or something like that oh, it got picked up and it's being used against us now, like, really used against us in terms of there's a big fight in colorado right now about stopping the banning of trophy hunting, uh, of mountain lions, so, but number one, nobody trophy hunts mountain lions, so they're trying to ban the hunting of mountain lions and it's there's a precedence happening here, because if it happens, then it's just going to knock on in other states.
Peter Gibbon:This was one of your podcasts recently you spoke about well, it's, it's. It was tom and I were talking about it as well. There's another one about the cruelty or harming of of any animal, isn't? It was the? The one that he spoke about, which is another bill that's trying to go through well, there's one in oregon.
Robbie Kroger:They failed twice already and that's probably what tom was talking about. It's called ip. I think it's ip49 now, initiative petition 49. It used to be ip13, then it was ip3, um, but there they're trying to like outlaw it's, it's everybody. So agriculture, fishing that's everything under one umbrella, like, for instance, artificial insemination, is going to be classified as sex abuse on cows right.
Peter Gibbon:It's just madness, absolute madness, when you look at it that way, and and. But. The thing is the, the farming industry, have the power and the money behind them that they can overrule it, but it will drop down to the wild animals, which don't have anybody to protect them apart from us, the conservationists and the hunters, and therefore our voice won't get heard. It'll get written into statute law for the states and all of a sudden that bans that type of hunting, doesn't it straight away?
Robbie Kroger:yeah, and that's what we're fighting in colorado, essentially. And so, like this guy, this wolf scenario, his picture with his wolf has been used in the campaign against us in colorado.
Peter Gibbon:So a bad apple, yeah, who thought was doing it for a laugh who showed the utmost disrespect to an animals in multiple ways like he, like it wasn't just one infraction it was like one after the other, after the other, after the other, and he is now the poster child of saying look, this is what this community looks like and that's and that, and it's so difficult to actually be able to, to bring yourself back up when you've been knocked that far down the ladder, because it it's that information spreads like wildfire. Well, it's like anything around the internet you do something wrong and it's it's gone forever and you're always known for it.
Robbie Kroger:To actually get the, the right picture back out there is so, so difficult oh no, that's, you know, that's what we do every day and, from a blood origins perspective, is is we create content every single day to change the perception of people, the non-hunting majority.
Robbie Kroger:That person, that was me, you know, back 30 years ago when I was in south africa, to say, oh okay, that's pretty cool. I never thought hunters were like that, or I never knew hunting did something like that. Um, like, for instance, we just released our first documentary called Wine and Water officially out into the public space and one of the things that we're purposely doing is, you know, because we've got social media as a tool, we're purposely putting wine and water into a Zimbabwean community. So, zimbabwe obviously have a lot of people that live on facebook and we all have seen sponsored ads on facebook of the things that come across our feed. Wine, water is a sponsored ad in zimbabwe right now because it's a story of hunting and hunters in zimbabwe fantastic, and we're getting phenomenal feedback. Like, like, you know, I really love watching Facebook and you see a post and you see all these names and you're like I have no idea who these people are.
Peter Gibbon:Yeah, yeah, that's what you want.
Robbie Kroger:It just means that they're interacting. Yeah, and it's all. Wow, this is incredible. Wow, these guys God sent. Together we can do great things. Nice documentary. Keep up the good work. Thank you for involving the community from the start brought tears to my eyes. Amazing documentary.
Peter Gibbon:Yeah, it's crazy that, that, just it. That's just great and it's really you kind of. You put the nail right where it needs to be, um, in the right place, whereas obviously a lot of I think a lot of the, the, the stuff. Well, the uk is a completely different place altogether. Anything, if you did a documentary on hunting, it's never going to be shown on the jet for the general public to see, and unless you manage to sneak it in somewhere. But even then, it's just one of those things. As soon as you mentioned, there was a tv show on the other week and it had a. One of the contestants winning potentially winning the lease for a farm was a gamekeeper, but they wouldn't use the word gamekeeper. He was a, something to do with wildlife and that was all they would put it down as it was almost like we were ashamed in the uk to mention the word gamekeeper oh geez and and you just think that, yeah, it's, um, it's madness, it really is.
Peter Gibbon:And I think the uk, even the hunters there's I think there's a or however many people that are in the uk, but there is only about six hundred and six hundred thousand firearms licenses, which is tiny. So we're such a minority over here that our word or trying to get anything out, and the few that do it, we're still just yeah, we're not, we're not listened to yeah, and I think that's the thing.
Robbie Kroger:Um, we're trying to create a message that isn't your typical hunting message. Yeah, and if you can create that message that isn't your typical must hunting message, then, um, you know, the non-hunting majority again, that's the audience that we're targeting from a blood origins perspective can start interacting with it. So, for instance, this wire and water thing, these people that are seeing this documentary, I guarantee you that the vast majority, if not all of them, are non-hunters.
Peter Gibbon:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's. How did you? How did? Well, let's go back to the beginning. How did Blood Origins start? Because what was the reasoning for it? What? Why did you want to create it?
Robbie Kroger:well, I, I have two boys. They're 12 and 10 now. They were five and seven at the time and I think I was just like you know, I was seeing hunting. I was watching hunting on television. Um, I was starting to reread my grandfather's stories a little bit more and I was like, man, I've got this opportunity to do we could do some pretty cool storytelling. And I think at that time I really maybe in my brain, wanted to become like I don't know, some sort of hunting celebrity, I guess you know some sort of hunting show beyond the outdoor channel, sportsman's Channel, whatn.
Robbie Kroger:But I had no idea. It was almost just a stuck brain fart, this idea, and I wanted to take my grandfather's stories and explore them more, and so one of the ways that I wanted to do that was I was like man, you know I need to. My boys are asking questions like like, why are we hunting? And I could explain to them biologically why we were hunting because I had a phd and I could understand. You know, talk about nest predators and populations and stuff like that. But I couldn't explain my heart to them and so I was like all right, let me ask, let me see if I can find it, let me go see if I can read up on people about why they hunt, see videos about why they're hunting. There's very, very, very few pieces of content around it and so.
Robbie Kroger:I said, well, why don't we just build it? And I didn't want to. I wanted to do it very differently. I wanted to film, be filmed very differently. I wanted to film very uncomfortably, so very engaging, like me and you talking right here, it's not a quarter turn interviews like oh no, no, straight away straight on.
Robbie Kroger:I Wanted it to be about other people, I didn't want it to be about me. So if you, if you watch, if you go back, we've done like I think we've done 80 blood origins episodes now, but if you go back to like the first 10, you won't see me at all. Okay, you'll just hear my voice. And so when I started going around the hunting circuit, the hunting show circuit, and asking for sponsorships and partnerships and whatnot, nobody knew who I was because nobody had seen me. Yeah, they all heard my voice. When they heard my voice was like, oh, you're that guy had seen me. They all heard my voice. When they heard my voice, like, oh, you're that guy. And again, fortuitously, you know, things happen for a reason. Everybody that we approached from a partnership perspective to like ask for money or anything like that, they told us no, yep, and little did I know that it was just like the podcast world I was was one of 10,000 people asking for money.
Robbie Kroger:Yeah yeah, yeah, and I had no idea, like I was completely naive to the whole situation, and so I I just kept doing it, though, like that's my personality, I'm a very, very persistent individual, and so I think one of the characteristics that you see of blood origins is that we're very persistent and we're very consistent in what we do and that's why we have almost I think we have over 500 podcasts.
Robbie Kroger:If you count up the roundups, I we're at like 100 and something roundups. Right, we're at 460 odd episodes. We're at 20 odd short truths. We're just consistent in what we do and how we do it and what we push out, yeah, yeah and um.
Robbie Kroger:And so we just kept going and going and going and going until my wife told me she's like look, I love what you, your passion for this and I had a full-time job at the time. I was still a full-time environmental consultant as I was building this thing, so I had two jobs for five years, essentially. And she just said look, I love what you do, I love your passion, but I need my savings account back, so you need to figure out how to pay for this. I need my savings account back, so you need to figure out how to pay for this. And luckily, we had some very close friends that suggested to us that we needed to convert ourselves into a 501c3. So in the United States, a 501c3 is a charity, it's a nonprofit charity and once we did that, like the first day, I announced it on socials that we were a charity and we did it the right way, in that we built the brand, we built the message, we built the integrity. Then we changed ourselves into a charity.
Robbie Kroger:Then we asked for money right from the public, versus not being a you know nobody and starting a charity and saying, hey, yeah, yeah 100 yeah and, uh, the first day we announced that we were a 501c3, I think 50 people gave us money right, wow, and I was like wow, okay, okay, we may have, we've got something here, I think. So that was it fantastic.
Peter Gibbon:What, what, what a way to do it that I, I, I, I feel you because starting off this podcast is what two years old now, and it's been like that and I'm very similar just keep plowing on. You have to keep asking questions, you get lots of knockbacks and you just keep going and I think that's the way and it's. I think it's it's. Those podcasts and and productions are the ones that do shine through and people can see the passion for them. Exactly as you say, but yeah, you, you've, you've moved into the next level. Now you're, you're, you're out there yeah, yeah.
Robbie Kroger:No, we're definitely on the next level and lots of hoops and and things that you have to jump through now as a charity and of course so, but it's, it's all worth it and we're on a rocket ship right now. Um, and yeah it's. You know, we've things are just things are really good and we're telling really good stories and we're we're in the middle of every controversy around hunting in the world.
Peter Gibbon:I would think I was gonna say yeah, if, if there's a controversy out there, you you seem to be right on top of it straight away and getting the information out there.
Robbie Kroger:Well, that's our bread and butter right, and we need to be. We have to consistently continue to do that, and we have not fallen behind the wayside. I have very high standards for myself in terms of what we do and how we do it and how quickly we respond. So, luckily, we're going to have some help here shortly. I hired a director of global policy outreach.
Peter Gibbon:I saw you advertising for that for a while.
Robbie Kroger:We hired a girl called Ashley Ellis Smith for that job and she's amazing. She'll be a new face and new voice for Blood Origins, so it won't be just the boring, drab Robbie Kroger anymore which will add just again. I'm quite excited for it because it's adding diversity to us and adding a different voice, a different cadence. She's the Spitfire. She's as she said in her interview process with me. She was like the only problem we're going to have is we're going to fight.
Peter Gibbon:Right, ok, well, it's good to be honest, isn't it Straight?
Robbie Kroger:away, and that's the thing you want. You want someone who has an opinion, who stands up for her opinion yes, and you can have an amicable discussion about the opinion.
Peter Gibbon:Well, sometimes, I think it's sometimes it's better to to get it all out there straight away, and then you kind of know exactly where you stand, rather than the people that don't give you that information. And there's always a tension. You get it out, you lay it on the table, you go this is my hand. There you go, deal with it. You either like it, you don't like it, it you make up and you carry on, and that's just the way it should be, and I think if the hunting world was like that, we would, we'd be in a much better place rather than all this backstabbing and sneaking around the place. It's, it's just the way that that life is there, isn't it?
Robbie Kroger:yeah yeah but every industry is like that, such as hunting. You know, that's the thing everyone's like. Oh man, the hunting industry.
Peter Gibbon:So like, as you said, a little backstabby, but every, every community, every lifestyle, every industry is like that yeah, but I think, well, I think that the the uk, we suffer massively with this and I've mentioned it before. The problem we've got is you've got the dip. Well, it's probably the same in the states, it's probably the same wherever you go in the world. You've've got your rifle shooters that are out there after their deer, you've got your wild fowlers, you've got your clay guys, you've got your pheasant shooters and they all.
Peter Gibbon:If we could agree, we have a central direction we need to go in and we all need to work towards that. Unfortunately, everybody wants to be captain and is driving this boat in completely different directions, and what you end up doing, as I feel, is we end up with cracks and and the antis, they have the ability to just drive that wedge in and it doesn't take a lot, and because we've created the opening, it starts to cause problems going forward and I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter where you are in the world, it's probably the same yeah, I've got.
Robbie Kroger:I've got two opinions on that matter. Number one yes, the the antis are incredibly smart, and they will leverage every little chink in our armor to sort of disengage us, break us down, fracture us. We certainly don't help the situation in that we are fractured. I do think, though, based on some things I've seen here in the last 10 months, that if the issue is big enough, that everyone will lay down their weapons essentially and come together okay so I think, if the issue gets big enough, I think everyone will come together.
Robbie Kroger:I do think, though, sometimes we inflate the infighting in hunting a little more than um than it actually is, and when I say that inflated to what everyone outside the circle is seeing. Looking into the circle, Okay.
Robbie Kroger:I don't think the non-hunting majority now again non-hunting not the antis, not the small percentage of antis that are just like a small percentage, but the general public. If you had to poll them and ask them, is there a? You know what's the word I'm looking for? Is there division, rife division within the hunting ranks between the different hunters? Yeah, I think you'd be surprised at the answer, and I think the answer would be no, I don't think so. They're all hunters, right?
Peter Gibbon:yes, yeah, yeah, no, I agree with you and it was a. Yeah, you're absolutely right, it was. It's one of those things. I spoke about this with a friend the other week and we were talking about the uk and you mentioned hunters, um, and all people, the general public, and he is general public and he said they only think of fox hunting. They think of guys riding around horses ripping a fox to bits with dogs. That's they don't. He goes, they don't think of what you do, the deer stalking, the management, the land management and all the rest of it. All they get their head around is it's been so instilled in them. It's fox hunting. As soon as you mention the word hunting, that's.
Robbie Kroger:That's a really cool um observation. Maybe that's what we should do. We've never done anything. We've done one story, one blood origins episode of a guy in the uk. We haven't really done anything in the uk yet but I think that's, you've got a little documentary to go just like what is hunting, and even just start in urban freaking london and ask random people like what is hunting to you and I I reckon you're right.
Peter Gibbon:I think eight out of ten people will go fox hunting yep, yeah, yeah and and my, my friend is a photographer and he deals with the general public on a daily basis and he's been out and he's done photo shoots with me, because it's something different. He goes I love doing photo shoots with you. There's no editing, I've not got to do lots of touching up, um, but that's and he talks about it and and he goes. I have to be so careful, obviously, being associated with you, because I deal with lots of vegetarians, vegans and all the rest of it. But yeah, that was his comment, that hunting. You mentioned hunting and then straight away it's the fox hunting. So there you go, new documentary for you. Come to the uk and try that one I think that'd be cool.
Robbie Kroger:I think that'd be cool. We're getting more and more into that bigger documentary space of like just asking people and getting people's opinions and trying to change people's opinions. Yeah, on, on what hunting actually? Or just yeah, just bigger hunting topics and that would be a sweet topic yeah, there's definitely.
Peter Gibbon:I think people are starting to look outside the box. This whole idea of wanting to know where your food comes from has has really opened people's eyes to actually start exploring the world of where can they get venison from. I know in the states you can't sell venison and it's it's one of those things. But in the uk venison is is readily available. We have facebook groups where you can shoot a deer and it's like game for the table and you can sell the carcass straight in fur because that's allowed. So this morning two row went up. Somebody's shot two deer and they're available 30 quid each and it's like brilliant. So that's some. They're 18 kilos by the time you've broken down, but that's still enough meals for potentially 20, 25 meals out of that and that's.
Peter Gibbon:It's so open for people and I think that's starting to change society in the uk very slowly and a minority, but things are moving forward, um. So yeah, it's, it's a it's, and I think the whole world over the uk is different, obviously, to the states. The states hunting is a very much it's, um, it's an ingrained thing. There's, it's part of life over there, I believe. Uh, well, it looks that way. It's probably changing in the cities. But yeah, the uk, we've kind of completely gone the opposite way and it's actually trying to bring that lifestyle back. You'd have thought it would still be here, but it's not. It's it, it really isn't.
Robbie Kroger:It's a tricky, tricky game to play yeah, I know I, you know it is a tricky game, but we have to. We have to figure out how we need to speak about it. We need to figure out how we need to engage the people that don't understand about understand it. Uh, we have to. You know, we call it. We call it fighting fire with fire. We need to be able to like see what the anti-hunters are doing against us and like use their same tactics against them. Yeah, you know, billboards, for example, or advertising, what not? We don't advertise at all like a pro hunting message because, if you think about it, anybody who's in the hunting space that's going to put an advertisement on a billboard it's always going to be self-serving and that I'm selling something.
Robbie Kroger:Yes, yeah, yeah I'm selling a membership, so, for instance, I'm not getting onto bask at all. But if bass was to put up a billboard, bass is going to be like they're trying to recruit hunters into their organization with their billboard, right, yeah? Yeah yeah, basque would never pay, and maybe they will after hearing me say this will never pay to put up a billboard in london that just says hunting is human no, no, of course not, and and I think that's one, because the backlash they would feel, they would get it's but why would they be worried about backlash?
Robbie Kroger:They're a hunter-led organization.
Peter Gibbon:But this is the biggest problem. I think all these big organizations will go with the flow because they don't like dealing. I'd almost say that the people that run them don't like dealing, that I'd almost say that the the people that run them don't like dealing with the backlash they get, so anytime. The lead band, for example, was a classic one over here. All the big organizations just swung in the direction. Oh yeah, the lead band will let that happen, whereas everybody that there were people out there going well, hang on a minute, we can't just let this happen. We need to stand for our rights. But no, these organizations.
Peter Gibbon:And then all of a sudden, things change and these organizations swing the other way because, oh well, look, the population of hunters and shooters are all having a right stand up about this and they're getting traction. We'll swing it back the other way, and I think that's the problem. We don't actually have a body that would stand up and really defend everything properly. That's that's my feeling, and I think that's where the uk has. It's that's one of the big problems with the divide. You have all these organizations, but none of them will stand up and be the figurehead to drive it forward.
Robbie Kroger:Yeah, look I get polit, look I'm. I'm probably more versed than most when it comes to politics and when you get big organizations, you're very much embedded in politics, and politics drives a lot of things and that you really don't understand. When an organization doesn't say something, it's not because they don't want to say something. There's just there may be some politics at play, so I don't want to say something. There's just there may be some politics at play, so I don't want to get into back and forth about what they said and how they said and why they said, but to me, we've never.
Robbie Kroger:We've never as a, as a hunting community, decided to be proactive in our messaging. No, no, we're an organized, we're a community that loves to sit in the closet. We've closed the closet door and that closet door we like it to stay closed. Every so often the closet door gets ripped open, we get punched in the nose and we come screaming, kicking and screaming, yelling and whatnot, and then when everything dies down, we just creep back into the closet and close the door. And let us be, when you're right, putting a billboard like. We have a billboard right now in victoria, australia, that says hunting is human. Right halfway around the world, blood origins put up a billboard with field and game australia and that billboard was not meant for hunters. That billboard was meant for the non-hunting majority to go. Oh, wow, that's a pretty bold statement. Yeah, yeah.
Peter Gibbon:What do you?
Robbie Kroger:mean what hunting is human? Oh, it means that, you know, slowly but surely, the idea of hunting is being erased from our lifestyles, which is why everyone is here today. Just go back one or two generations and you'll find a hunter in your family or a hunter around your family that allows your family to survive. And it's that erosion of values, erosion of traditions, erosion of heritage that comes with it. That hunting is is just, it's inherently who we are, it's how we got to where we are today and we should be proud of that, and that's okay to be proud of that. And so we put a boat board up that says hunting is human.
Peter Gibbon:Full stop, end of story no, I I absolutely fantastic and it would be amazing to see that hit the uk. But I guess you've got to convince the advertiser, and that's, that's the one hurdle.
Peter Gibbon:Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100 it's. Um, possibly it's doable in scotland. There would be advertisers that would do it, but again it's. Uh, it's a really tricky situation, especially considering that we're on rocky ground at the moment. We've got, obviously, a general election coming up, so who knows what we'll get. We have parties that could come in there and they were potentially the instigators of hunting bans and just trying to destroy all of this because that's their agenda. Um, I think the the UK could be in for a very rocky road depending on who wins our next general election in terms of the hunting community.
Robbie Kroger:I'm surprised that in the UK, given the way that it's set up the coalition government structure, I'm surprised that and then, given the way that Labour has moved away from agriculture and this whole, there hasn't been like this uprising of this, a new party. That's just like, okay, this new party is rural based, agriculture based, hunting, fishing, shooting based. Like in australia, they got the hunt shooters, fishers and farmers party or something like that yep, the.
Peter Gibbon:The problem is the, the, the number of people that. Well, a lot of people are the quiet hunter that hides in the cupboard, as you said. They don't, they don't tell people what they do. They go out, they enjoy their sport, their activity, but they won't stand up in public and talk about it. They wouldn't, they wouldn't mention it that they do that sort of thing.
Peter Gibbon:There are some that are quite vocal about it and and great, but they potentially could be your bad apples, and the way they vocalize it and they bring that information out doesn't do justice or doesn't do the activity particularly good publicity, uh. And then there's others that are just trying, but they have no voice, they're, they're not, they, they're not listened to quite at the moment, they're not in the right place, and I think that's where the uk is, it's almost it's, it's going through that development phase again on where it needs to be and where its position is in terms of hunters, fishers, everything along those lines, and the farmers are certainly stepping up and they're trying to to get themselves back together. But you've got to get hunters and farmers and hunters and fishers all to work in the same line, to go forward and, again, at the moment that isn't happening well, you've got.
Robbie Kroger:You know. I hate to use this example, but the fact that jeremy clarkson killed the roe deer on clarkson farm was. Yeah, you know, had probably has done more for hunting then he's just like a joe rogan right. It's just like holy shit. I can't believe he did it.
Peter Gibbon:He's done more for farming and he's done more for for the hunting community. With just that, and especially because it was they didn't they didn't air it out, they just put it out there and he spoke about it and went through the whole process and I, yeah, you, you cannot thank him enough really, because he really has kind of brought it back into the picture that deer species in the uk need to be managed and, yeah, it happens yeah, I'm a big fan.
Robbie Kroger:I'm a big fan of him and what he's doing, so, uh, yeah, but he's, he's chalk and cheese, you see, oh no absolutely love the show but again, it's one of those things jeremy clarkson obviously has a past, that there's people.
Peter Gibbon:There's people that love him and then there's people that don't, and of course, that's one of those great things about it. But he has done absolute wonders for the farming community and hopefully now, uh, the um, the hunting community will, will get some, some, some feedback off that at the end of the day. Yeah, but we need more shows like it. That's that's the thing.
Robbie Kroger:Oh, of course, and I think that there's. You know, again, that's where we strive, from a blood origins perspective, to go. Is that we want to? We want to talk to these mainstreamers, these main. We don't want to be in the, in the isolated bubble of the hunting community. You've got people like Jeremy Clarkson who hunt um. I was just on a podcast with a WWE superstar 6.5 million people follow her on Instagram. She's got pink hair, you know the whole kit and caboodle and she just became a hunter fantastic. So there's lots of those and I think our job I take it personally as our job is to introduce ourselves to those individuals, be persistent with them to the point where it's like, yeah, let's have a conversation, whether that's you know, whether that's a podcast or whether that's an interview, whether that's something deeper or richer, I don't know just something, or it's us helping them with hunting related um narratives.
Robbie Kroger:But those are the kinds of people that say it's okay, I'm going to. I'm going to talk about hunting.
Robbie Kroger:Yeah, I'm going to say that I'm a hunter and they influence their big, big, big non-hunting community, just like a clarkson, just like a natalie eva marie, and then it's okay, who's the next person? Who's the next person that we can introduce to hunting or is interested? But they've heard about us that we can reach out and engage. That's in a much bigger community, like a big crossfit community or, you know, country music community. I don't know it it's.
Peter Gibbon:It's a slow process and I think, yeah, it it just. It does take time. But, as you say, if you can, I've. I've done it with people. I brought people up that have never stalked a deer before they've come up. They've shot a deer that you know. They go back to london and they can sit in a pub, they can drink their beers, they can sit around the table and it's like what did you do this this weekend? Well, I went and took a deer and if they have that conversation and they can explain the reasons why they did it and and everything behind it, rather than it was just pulling the trigger, you, you might get one more person understand the whole process of deer stalking and suddenly you're, you're winning. You, you just convert. Just allowing one more person understand the whole process of deer stalking and suddenly you're, you're winning. You, you just convert. Just allowing one person to understand it makes a huge difference oh, for sure, for sure, and that's exactly.
Robbie Kroger:You know, our you know, the reason for our existence really is to is to have that conversation with that one person and, in the moment, in digital media. You may, you may not convince that one person in and in the moment, in digital media. You may, you may not convince that one person in that, in that back and forth discussion like what hunting is and why it should be in their, in their brain sets and their mindset. Um, oh, they should be okay with hunting.
Robbie Kroger:But I know that 10 000 people just read my comment or a hundred thousand people, depending on how big of an account I'm engaging in um read my comment and was like wow, I never thought a hunter, I never knew a hunter, could speak like that. I never knew a hunter was that intelligent? Um, oh, I never knew about that statistic or that piece of information. And all of a sudden we've got all these seeds that have been planted everywhere that you have no idea about. Right, you have no idea who's read your comments. It'll blow your mind. Who's actually watching you. They don't engage, they don't do anything, they just sit back and watch.
Peter Gibbon:Yeah, yeah, and that's what you want at the end of the day, as long as that information is getting out there and it's, and you produce it and present it in a an educated way that isn't just look at me, then you're doing. Yeah, you're doing the right thing yeah, 100, that's what we do.
Robbie Kroger:We love it and we try and do it as much as we can in in very different, as many different forms of content that we can do it in right podcast, feature films, short videos, infographics I was going to say because your website's pretty impressive.
Peter Gibbon:It's, it's a very smart looking, everything about it, everything I've seen so far of the blood origins sort of overlook. It's very polished, it's very smart, it's very well done. You really hit the nail there on the head well, I appreciate that man.
Robbie Kroger:You know that we, we are very purposeful in in what we do, and we I knew that we had to everything, everything that we do, we had to do it at the highest, highest, highest quality we possibly could do it at, because we needed to do that, because that differentiates us from the 10,000 other people that were in the space, and that's what we started with and we just continued along that track and we'll continue to do it. We just want to be better and better and better at what we do and that people can see it. They can see the beauty in it, they can see the passion in it, they can see the authenticity in it, which is what we're trying to bring to the table so what's?
Peter Gibbon:uh, let's jump on a bit. What's, what's? What's next on for blood origins? Where are you trying to go? Everything, everything everything like.
Robbie Kroger:We just finished a piece in france and belgium on saving bambi. So saving rodeo with thermal drones and hay fields, yeah, that was incredible. Um, we're working on a big elephant documentary right now out of botswana. We filmed that last year. That should be ready in july. Um, which is very timely, and the fact that the the Botswana president is offering the German parliament 20 000 elephants, that he's going to send them 20 000 elephants right. Um, we've we've got a bunch of work coming out of New Zealand. Uh, we've got a big documentary that we're trying to finish out of out of Spain. Um, we're into tanzania to tackle this big elephant controversy in a month and a half's time.
Robbie Kroger:So it's just everything, everywhere, yeah, yeah everywhere, we are everywhere, oh if if we had to stop today, like if you said robbie, you're done, we probably have enough content, that will start keep rolling out till middle of 2026, right now, wow okay, that's, that's impressive.
Peter Gibbon:That is that, yeah, that that I I think I'm trying to get ahead and getting podcasts lined up, but it is. It's one of those things I don't think people quite realize that, yeah, what, how much stuff you do in the background and obviously now this is a full-time job for you. I'm still in the situation where you were I'm running my, my business, and still trying to put content out at the same time, but, yeah, it is, it's time consuming and and just finding getting it all processed and getting all the contacts and everybody. But that's impressive that you're that far ahead and you have that much content ready to go.
Robbie Kroger:So, yeah, well, we don't have it ready to go, let's just say, all right, we've got it filmed, it's in, it's in the pipeline? Yeah, it's in the pipeline, for sure fantastic, um.
Peter Gibbon:So, yeah, I'm not going to hold up any more of your time. I don't think. I think, um, I know you're a busy man and it is six. It was just well. It was 6 am when we started for you and it was just gone 12 for me. So I think we'll keep it short and sweet. We've allowed people to introduce who you are. If they don't know in the for the UK, uh, go, I'll put some links in so you can actually go and have a look and, if you get a chance, have a listen to some of the podcasts and some of the stuff you've produced.
Peter Gibbon:As I say, the memorable one for me was the, the australian guy, because that was just like that, so could be brought to scotland for our red deer issues and, and I think it, once upon a time there was actually an estate up here that used to do small fences and once the trees got to a certain height, they'd take the fences down and actually allow the deer back in, because obviously they don't cause any problems. Unfortunately, now it doesn't work like that. They just fence off huge areas, uh, and plant trees in them and keep all the deer out and eradicate, and that's been our biggest, biggest problem up here. So, yeah, there's some good content there, but anyway, thank you ever so much for your time, um, and unless there's any questions you've got for me, no, thank you, man.
Robbie Kroger:I really appreciate it. I'm honored and humbled um.
Peter Gibbon:If we do manage to come to the uk, you'll have to take me deerstalking, okay no worries, we'll do that, we'll definitely organize that, but uh, yeah, thanks for your time and we'll. We'll catch you again you're welcome.
Robbie Kroger:Thank you so much thanks again for listening.
Peter Gibbon:Hope you enjoyed that chat with robbie from the blood origins. If there's anything in there that you want to ask more questions about, feel free to drop us a message. Obviously, now you can use that link I talked about that comes up on the descriptions of all the podcasts. It's a bit like a text messaging system. We get to see it. We can't respond to it, but obviously I can read them out and send the message back via the podcast. You've got all our other methods of getting in touch with us, either via social media, you can drop us an email. It's peter at theoutdoorgibboncom. And yeah, we will catch you on the next one.